TRO Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 We all agree we have a new manager and he needs support, time and money to help him. was he the right choice.....time will tell. but I pose this to you.....How many on here would have baulked at signing any of the following Managers Pulis Allardyce Flores Howe Hughes Raneiri Pardew Everyone of them has improved their teams position since their appointment. Every one of those managers knows and highlights in their teams ......the art of defending, all through their respective sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 11 minutes ago, TRO said: Players like : Sinclair-Richards- Lescott.....Have had a touch of the high life lived off the back of playing with better foreign players and have come to us and been found out. Gabby-Grealish - have spent too much time having bubbles blown up their arse and think they are better than what they are Baker - Clark - Were never good enough to fill the boots of Mellberg and Laursen and the canteen lady would know that. Hutton-Richardson- cissokho - all failed/damaged goods Guzan-Steer-Bunn - If you played the 3 together only then may you feel safe.....sub standard. The french lads might not have given us the lift we was looking for .....But my god, to lift this motley crew was a big ask. I think it is unfair to throw Grealish in with Gabby. One will be 30 next birthday the other is just 20, has been a bit of a prat but is still finding his feet at this level and in life. On the bigger point no one would deny this is a poor squad. It was a poor squad last season with Vlaar, Cleverly, Delph and Benteke. Is it a squad that is only good enough to have 8 points after 20 games? No chance. Is it 7 points worse than Sunderlands, 13 worse than Bournemouth, 15 worse than Norwich, 18 worse than West Brom, 21 worse than Watford. Not a chance for me and the reason it is is down to poor management. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Neil said: I'd have sooner one of those had kept us in this league, than the drop we're now facing...all day long. You're just hoping on a whim, from what I'm reading, that the long term will be better after we've been relegated under Garde. One of those wouldn't keep us in the league though. The players are not Premier League quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Spoony said: One of those wouldn't keep us in the league though. The players are not Premier League quality. Seems like Fat sam might just do it, yet again, with Sunderland. Individually, the players we have are not worse than Sunderlands merry band of misfits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 For me every manager should be judged after he has had the chance to bring in his own players and mould his own team. The fact that Garde can do no better with the shower of shite available to him than Sherwood could is all to do with the addled decisons of the existing heirarchy and little to do with Garde. There is zero chance that we can bring anything in during January who can make a difference so for me Garde has got the summer and then the first dozen games of next season to prove himself McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood (although I hated Sherwood) have not been given the tools to do the job. Our energies are much better spent hounding Fox and Co than worrying about Garde (for the moment) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted January 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, Neil said: I'd have sooner one of those had kept us in this league, than the drop we're now facing...all day long. You're just hoping on a whim, from what I'm reading, that the long term will be better after we've been relegated under Garde. Call it a whim if you like but it wasn't that long ago relatively when the mention of signing either Alardyce or Pulis would have sent VT into meltdown. Then the fans became desperate and many suddenly saw them as some kind of saviours. I will persist with my whimsical beliefs as imho the alternatives are frankly shite and offer nothing for the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I think it is unfair to throw Grealish in with Gabby. One will be 30 next birthday the other is just 20, has been a bit of a prat but is still finding his feet at this level and in life. On the bigger point no one would deny this is a poor squad. It was a poor squad last season with Vlaar, Cleverly, Delph and Benteke. Is it a squad that is only good enough to have 8 points after 20 games? No chance. Is it 7 points worse than Sunderlands, 13 worse than Bournemouth, 15 worse than Norwich, 18 worse than West Brom, 21 worse than Watford. Not a chance for me and the reason it is is down to poor management. I have difficulty disagreeing with your sentiment Mark....on the surface you would say that they are not worse than those teams, However, I do think there is a dressing room issue.....and I also think there is a gulf in quality of play when we have the ball as opposed to when we haven't got the ball, they are like Jekyll and Hyde. On the issue of Grealish, I take your point , but I have to disagree.....I will go on record now as saying he will be a massive dud for us. I can see he has talent but there is a gap(IMO) in all the necessary ingredients to be the complete premiership player. For me he lacks the defensive skills necessary to execute the offensive skills he clearly has. Whether he can improve ,we will see, but for me I am dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 12 minutes ago, Spoony said: One of those wouldn't keep us in the league though. The players are not Premier League quality. Oh and Sunderland and WBA are? No, they both have poor limited squads but those two continuously keep teams up. The fact is both of those would have most likely kept us up too. I hate the way those two play the game but we needed that kind of appointment for a few seasons to settle the shambles we've been in for 5 years + 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Call it a whim if you like but it wasn't that long ago relatively when the mention of signing either Alardyce or Pulis would have sent VT into meltdown. Then the fans became desperate and many suddenly saw them as some kind of saviours. I will persist with my whimsical beliefs as imho the alternatives are frankly shite and offer nothing for the future. There's no denying that we are under a desperate situation under the current manager, and if you think relegation is going to help our long term future... And if you gave everyone at the time the benefit of hindsight, staying in this league under Allardyce or relegation under Garde I think you know what the resounding choice would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, TRO said: We all agree we have a new manager and he needs support, time and money to help him. was he the right choice.....time will tell. but I pose this to you.....How many on here would have baulked at signing any of the following Managers Pulis Allardyce Flores Howe Hughes Raneiri Pardew Everyone of them has improved their teams position since their appointment. Every one of those managers knows and highlights in their teams ......the art of defending, all through their respective sides You're comparing apples and oranges. The only team as cheapskate as ours in that list is Sunderland, and last I saw before playing us they had lost five games in a row, and they're only a little better off than we are. Remi Garde has had the worst hand out of all those managers by lightyears. Not only did we narrowly avoid relegation last year, but we then went on and sold or lost three or four of our best players. There's more than an argument that Benteke has been integral in keeping us up in the last few years, even though he'd been injured for a significant period. Look at the likes of Sunderland—they've not lost their best players and they still have a striker who can score goals. Maybe we could have beaten them with Ayew but we'll never know. Overall, we're shit and I feel sorry for Remi Garde. What's happening is all on Lerner. MON said back in the day that you need to spend £15million a year just to stand still in the Premiership, and I think he's right. All those teams, Stoke, Crystal Palace, Watford etc. have invested wisely over the previous few seasons. The promoted teams were promoted from the Championship because they had good players and they were well-run. We've been cut to shreds with Lerner Austerity, and it's only a surprise it's taken this long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 While I see so many faults and errors.....In terms of what to do to put it right. I haven't got a clue and I don't mind admitting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, TRO said: While I see so many faults and errors.....In terms of what to do to put it right. I haven't got a clue and I don't mind admitting it. It will be a long and painful process - Fox and Co will either need to learn or move on. We could be in the Championship for the next five or ten years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted January 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Neil said: There's no denying that we are under a desperate situation under the current manager, and if you think relegation is going to help our long term future... And if you gave everyone at the time the benefit of hindsight, staying in this league under Allardyce or relegation under Garde I think you know what the resounding choice would be. Where did I say relegation is going to help our long term future? Like nearly everyone else I have accepted that is a nailed on certainty and see no point in bringing someone in who specialises in saving clubs from relegation. We are basically ****** for now. As for the benefit of hindsight; Its a wonderful thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, Cliffy Biro said: Oh and Sunderland and WBA are? No, they both have poor limited squads but those two continuously keep teams up. The fact is both of those would have most likely kept us up too. I hate the way those two play the game but we needed that kind of appointment for a few seasons to settle the shambles we've been in for 5 years + I have a sneaky, sneaky feeling some who post on this site, would not have enjoyed the football under Ron Saunders/Tony Barton. give me winning football every time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 With the state the club is in I don't think any of the managers listed above would do a great job with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 8 minutes ago, Cliffy Biro said: Oh and Sunderland and WBA are? No, they both have poor limited squads but those two continuously keep teams up. The fact is both of those would have most likely kept us up too. I hate the way those two play the game but we needed that kind of appointment for a few seasons to settle the shambles we've been in for 5 years + This was the argument wasn't it when under Lambert the names Pulis or Allardyce were mentioned it was that they play shit football or that they have a glass ceiling that will never take you above mid table. We haven't played good football for years we have played the worst kind of football, losing football, and we haven't sat mid table for six years. For me Allardyce and Pulis play effective football. They access what they have, strip things back to basics and get the best out of average players. Given what we have had at our disposal the last few years they'd have been perfect for us and I'd put my house on us being a mid to lower table team now which is infinitely better than where we currently find ourselves. It might not be pretty but you know what you are getting with them guys. Under Lambert, Sherwood and now Garde we haven't really had a clue but the culmination of it all is relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RimmyJimmer Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I dont think there has been a lack of funds for players compared to the teams/managers mentioned...We've just spent it badly. I think sunderland may well still go down but you look at the players albion have got...premiership experience throughout. Oh to have a bang average darren fletcher or jonny evans...even ricky lambert. I think that ayew & amavi are the only players we have who would better albions team...imo of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TRO said: I have a sneaky, sneaky feeling some who post on this site, would not have enjoyed the football under Ron Saunders/Tony Barton. give me winning football every time. They wouldn't have enjoyed the football under Taylor (MK1) either. As you say give me wining effective football any day of the week. Edited January 3, 2016 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 38 minutes ago, Xela said: We should have moved for Allardyce when he was available. He was appointed Sunderland boss then we sack Sherwood. The club cocked up (again!). watching Sunderland yesterday wouldnt give me confidence he would have kept us up. They were atrocious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Just now, Zatman said: watching Sunderland yesterday wouldnt give me confidence he would have kept us up. They were atrocious True, but he's got 4 victories out of the worst squad in the league. With better players (ours) I think we would have seen far better results than we have under Garde so far. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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