Neil Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 1 minute ago, useless said: Everything seems just hopeless and desolate, the club is buried alive in a grave within a grave. Just us fans left scratching to get out... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Coward owner, Cluless manager and bottle less players. Will the last person to leave Villa Park please turn out the lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Still struggling to really dislike Garde.. I still don't think much of it is his fault, he's trying to get shit players to not be shit when for most of them it's impossible. Sherwood whether he wanted to or not signed some of the worst players I have ever seen. Yes Garde could probably be more tactically aware but not even Mourinho would win more than 3 games a season with our squad so it's hard to really pick on Garde for failing.. I do question why he took the job though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjavfc Posted January 2, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 2, 2016 It's difficult to know how low we will sink at this point. We need a massive recruitment drive this summer once the deadwood has been cleared. We need quality and quantity, and players who are appropriate for our new league, our new playing system and our new financial situation (whatever Randy decides upon). We then have to fashion a heavily modified squad with very few senior 'villa' pros into a functional team, capable of beating well established teams. Most new managers have a foundation of some kind to build on but ours is already crumbling and will be further depleted upon relegation. This rebuilding task could take years and almost certainly will take longer than the instant success the fans will demand. At this point I think we have to pick our manager and stick with him though the difficult rebuilding period. There is so little to build on and in such dark times I think we need a proven character known for building teams up. I feel for Remi and in different circumstances I do think he could be a great manager, but it is a truly massive task ahead and his CV is simply not long enough to give any evidence that he is the man for this job. I would be delivering a very large check to David Moyes at this point and telling him to get ready for the challenge of his life - literally rebuilding an entire squad from the ground up in his image. Because God help us if we leave this task up to the famed transfer committee and not a football manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, markavfc40 said: Not for a second. I do however believe it was possible to bring in a manager that could have done better with this squad. If it wasn't then there was little point in replacing the previous manager. Fans can talk about Remi starting next season regardless of what happens during this one but be under no illusions though this will all have a massive impact him on him as a manager and will scar him. I don't know where a win is coming from under him. I said a few days ago given our desperate need if we can't get a win against the 17th, 18th and 19th placed sides, when we played them, then who will we beat. The board can't have thought the day they sacked Sherwood 10 games later we would have 4 more points, have gone from 19th to 20th and from 4 points from safety to 11. Neither could any fan. Despite what he inherited this isn't a free pass for Garde. His record before he arrived doesn't come close to warranting that level of faith in him. Nothing I have seen so far gives me any optimism that he could bring us back up. That doesn't mean I am writing him off by the way I am just not prepared to go out on a limb and say I am happy to let him be our manager next season based on zero evidence, so far, that he'd warrant the job. I agree totally. Someone I thought we could have attracted and would possibly have done a Tony pulis is Nigel Pearson....he would have been my choice and it seems HDE said it would have been his choice too. It's all well and good some fans looking for an Arsenal style revolution but we are light years away from that. i see that Remi says it's taken him until now, to know what's going on.....that 2 months treading water. I'm not blaming him, but I wasn't blaming Sherwood either.....but we have now gone from loosing by the odd goal to now loosing by 2 goals, I hardly see that as progress. its getting worse. there are so many fires to put out the manager needs web feet. Edited January 2, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Look I'm not blinding sticking up for the guy, but how many manager's do we do we go through before we realise that this squad of players is just appalling? The club is rotten and needs rebuilding. Now whilst he hasn't necessarily shown a great deal of improvement on the pitch, I think he just might be the ruthless bast**d we need to rip this team to pieces. I hope we give the guy the chance to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, av1 said: Look I'm not blinding sticking up for the guy, but how many manager's do we do we go through before we realise that this squad of players is just appalling? The club is rotten and needs rebuilding. Now whilst he hasn't necessarily shown a great deal of improvement on the pitch, I think he just might be the ruthless bast**d we need to rip this team to pieces. I hope we give the guy the chance to do so. I think we have too, but Mark does have a point you cannot unconditionally allow a manager limitless time. i think it's one thing going down, but to be in this position so early in the season is alarming. it strikes me that there is something toxic in this squad. Edited January 2, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I feel like our downside will be pretty severe. I'm not sure we will bounce straight back up, I think this club is in absolute turmoil and relegation will just make things worse. I think we will keep hold of Amavi for at least the first half of the season (due to his injury) and for some reason I think we'll keep Traore for half a season to a season, and he could be the one hope we have, as he will basically be Maradona in that division. But I expect the majority of our 'good' players to leave. We could then be stuck with players on high wages that are pretty much 'unmoveable' (Richards, Hutton etc). We will need to be very smart and sign a balance of talent who can develop into Premier League standard players and those who are 'proven' in the championship. The issues I see is that you now have to spend pretty big in that division, there are teams in there right now with higher net spends than us for this season. Lerner of course hasn't been prepared to spend in the Premier League over the last few years so there's no reason to think he will spend in the Championship, where our revenues will fall. We also need to back our more talented young players and give them a proper go. But for some reason I just feel this will be all too big of an ask, I don't expect Garde to stick around and I think we will continue to flip flop with inadequate managers and under investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Like many other here, I put my voice to the club being rotten and needs putting down, the problems are not the Manager's. The anti-Garde got what they asked for today with Grealish's, Gil, Adama and Kozac all getting decent runs out, and an attacking intent, but we get beaten by two clear goals. The problem is poor defence and blunt attack, and also silly individual errors that shouldn't happen with PL Pros. A selling club with no ambition - who wants to join, who wants to stay. The cupboard is bare. With our current philosophy and management we can play this out and return in a few seasons if we hang onto the right players and add carefully. We will be better for it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Just now, TRO said: I think we have too, but Mark does have a point you cannot unconditionally allow a manager limitless time. i think it's one thing going down, but to be in this position so early in the season is alarming. it roles me that there is something toxic in this squad. I agree, and as I have I said, I think it's quite difficult to form an opinion of Garde given the complete mess he has inherited. At first it was because GH was out of touch, then because AM was just crap, PL was boring, TS was a tosser, now apparently Remi is don't cut the mustard. You just get to the stage when realise our problems are much much more than the Manager. Like you, I think that the squad is toxic, if Tim got one thing right it was that we are losers. Remi has shown that he doesn't suffer fools, and that may be just what we need. I may be completely wrong with that, but I would give him a pre season to see how he can build his own squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StigVillan Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 It's terrifying to think how far we could fall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I can't blame Garde. Surely it's crystal clear now that this squad of players simply ain't got it! Sherwood tried just about everything to find a successful formula, he failed. Ditto Garde and i've no doubt whoever you put in there would have the exact same issue. I see a car which is not quite quick enough to keep up with the other cars in a rally, No matter how good the driver that car is just incapable of keeping up without being rebuilt. We need to give Garde a chance to build his team surely? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I think Remi has been given the latitude to go down without loosing his job. This allows you to make different decisions. i don't think Tim was given the same brief..... .....the clubs hierarchy simply did not know the extent of the problem and only realised when TS failed. its all run by trial & error. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 30 minutes ago, thunderball said: Like many other here, I put my voice to the club being rotten and needs putting down, the problems are not the Manager's. The anti-Garde got what they asked for today with Grealish's, Gil, Adama and Kozac all getting decent runs out, and an attacking intent, but we get beaten by two clear goals. The problem is poor defence and blunt attack, and also silly individual errors that shouldn't happen with PL Pros. A selling club with no ambition - who wants to join, who wants to stay. The cupboard is bare. With our current philosophy and management we can play this out and return in a few seasons if we hang onto the right players and add carefully. We will be better for it too. Good post, but will people please stop doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Well its turning out that Sherwood wasn't the sole reason we were shit. I'm beginning to think this was the wrong time for someone like Garde. This is the guy we should have hired in a couple of years time after promotion and surviving for a year. This is the guy to try and push us onto the next level, not save us from a mess or get us out of a very difficult league. I've seen absolutely nothing to think long term we will be a good team under Garde, he's shown nothing as of this point. I don't see how this changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 13 minutes ago, Richard said: Requoted to try and help the education process You aren't educating anyone. At least not me. Your views are your opinions and not necessarily fact or shared by others. As you mention with Lambert he was only worth 18 months before being broken so in reality shouldv'e been sacked long before you stopped backing him?! Also I don't particularily care regarding your support of Lambert tbh or at the time(each to their own), however when you called Garde spineless I found it uncalled for especially your reasoning, hence my response. You see to show so much patience with a manager and blaming restraints for his shortcomings and then show no patience with following managers for less is, if you don't mind me saying..A bit rich(sorry couln't help myself). Garde has been here 9 games, has walked into a far bigger shambles than any of our previous managers in recent times and he also has had no chance to improve with his own signings yet. Take this also for instance.... "On me being unfair on Garde. Really? I am giving my opinion on him. I have said elsewhere I have no doubt he is a decent honourable and charming man. However, and this is where we come to the real issue of problems with our club, he is a man for those running the club he is not a man for the fans. There is and has been for a while, a major disconnect with the hopes, ambitions, wants and goals of those running the club and those who despite it all continue to support it. I'd suggest that it is poles apart at the minute. They want a man to come in and work to their philosophy which has failed and will fail. We need a man to come in and make us a football club again, one who knows what it is about being a football club and will compete. Axs long as this disconnect continues we will only be going one way as a team and as a club. Changing the manager is no good as those who remain will continue to appoint in their image. Going down will not change it as those that remain will continue to run the club as they see fit, admitting no failure. Especially as some fans carry on focussing on the manager." Your view yeh?! Well did the fans not help the board to choose Lambert and wasn't he a so called manager for the fans? And for whatever reason was he the correct appointment? I would say catergorically no as would 99% of fans after the fact! But that's my opinion. Now of course we all have varying thoughts as to what is going wrong/right or whatever, however the bottom line we all know the real issues are deeper than the last 3 managers- for instance the owner and his subordinates. Also the bold, what's that about?In other posts you want Garde gone yet admit in this one nothing will change. What do you want the club to pay out further compo for when you think nothing will change? Garde, as does Sherwood and Lambert all know what a football club is, and have all been successful in their careers long before they joined us. Plus they would all want to compete at this club and do well as do all managers. I would also say that any manager coming in to a club first and foremost are employees and therefore will never be a manager for the fans unless they happen to be successful. Unless of course you meant a caveman to come in and bully players whilst smashing everyone in his path - like Pearson? Old fashioned and hard! The truth here is nobody knows what the solution definitely is including me and you. This manager, that manager, new owners, new players, blah blah blah! Most wanted a change within the club(including myself) after the MON fiasco. No more managers with total control. A new approach regarding transfers and personnel. Even a DOF to oversee. Like Southampton etc. Getting back to Garde though I don't think he is spineless in the slightest. Can he turn the club around given time...possibly, possibly not, but he will need time thats for sure. At least another couple of months before everyone rights him of as being spineless and shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasterpocket68 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Wrong appointment again and now it's to late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasterpocket68 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Daweii said: Still struggling to really dislike Garde.. I still don't think much of it is his fault, he's trying to get shit players to not be shit when for most of them it's impossible. Sherwood whether he wanted to or not signed some of the worst players I have ever seen. Yes Garde could probably be more tactically aware but not even Mourinho would win more than 3 games a season with our squad so it's hard to really pick on Garde for failing.. I do question why he took the job though. What what lol lol lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 2 hours ago, markavfc40 said: There could be a touch of this for some. I know many of us were of the belief, me included, that this was a half decent squad of players being poorly managed. Now for some of the same supporters it seems this is now a poor squad of players being correctly managed or being managed well enough to decide that the current manager has the job in 8 months time despite not having won a game yet and without a clue as to what will happen over the remaining 18 games of this season. For what it is worth I now think this is a pretty poor squad of players. No worse than Norwich, no worse than Sunderland's, no worse than Bournemouths and arguably no worse than another 2 or 3 clubs though. That for me then means, just a it did under Sherwood, as we are averaging less than 0.5 points per game, that the manager is not getting anywhere near enough out of them. Mark, I was one of those such supporters. I also still believe this squad is(sorry was) good enough to stay in this division. What I do think though is that Garde(just an opinion) has had more than confidence issues to deal with at the club since arriving. Now I am not saying some of it is not brought on in the way he may have dealt with things but something is clearly wrong with the players. Especially the likes of Gabby and Grealish who should be fighting their nut's off and forcing their way into this team to keep us up and at least make an effort when on the pitch. As with others who have commented it would not surprise me if certain players have caused a divide in the dressing room with our foreign signings due to having their noses put out of place. Look at Grealish today for instance..did he look like he was bothered? even when we were pressing the game early doors his body language and effort was shocking. His first start for weeks and thats all he can muster?! I know you rate him as do many but age is no excuse for effort. Also I stick by my views regarding the summer signings. I thought at the time and still do that we brought some good quality younger players into the team. Ayew, Traore, Veretout, Amavi.Then with Richards, Gana, Gil, Grealish, etc thought we had the makings of an exciting team. Although lacking up front I felt there was/is more depth than previously, I still do however it is obvious our weaknesses lie in those that have been playing premier league football more than a couple of months which I have also commented on previously. The effort and quality from the senior players above all has been nothing short of disgraceful at times. Now I definitely don't think Garde can automatically be given however long in the job regardless of performances. IMO there definitely needs to be progress between now and the end of the season even if only for the sake of pride. What I will back him on currently though is removing bit by bit the underachievers, the shit and those who don't give a toss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: Mark, I was one of those such supporters. I also still believe this squad is(sorry was) good enough to stay in this division. What I do think though is that Garde(just an opinion) has had more than confidence issues to deal with at the club since arriving. Now I am not saying some of it is not brought on in the way he may have dealt with things but something is clearly wrong with the players. Especially the likes of Gabby and Grealish who should be fighting their nut's off and forcing their way into this team to keep us up and at least make an effort when on the pitch. As with others who have commented it would not surprise me if certain players have caused a divide in the dressing room with our foreign signings due to having their noses put out of place. Look at Grealish today for instance..did he look like he was bothered? even when we were pressing the game early doors his body language and effort was shocking. His first start for weeks and thats all he can muster?! I know you rate him as do many but age is no excuse for effort. Also I stick by my views regarding the summer signings. I thought at the time and still do that we brought some good quality younger players into the team. Ayew, Traore, Veretout, Amavi.Then with Richards, Gana, Gil, Grealish, etc thought we had the makings of an exciting team. Although lacking up front I felt there was/is more depth than previously, I still do however it is obvious our weaknesses lie in those that have been playing premier league football more than a couple of months which I have also commented on previously. The effort and quality from the senior players above all has been nothing short of disgraceful at times. Now I definitely don't think Garde can automatically be given however long in the job regardless of performances. IMO there definitely needs to be progress between now and the end of the season even if only for the sake of pride. What I will back him on currently though is removing bit by bit the underachievers, the shit and those who don't give a toss. Great post mate. What I wanted to say but you articulated it better. The summer signings (particularly the French lads) have had varying degrees of success, but what you can't knock with any of them is effort. Its the senior players that really need to have a look at themselves, these guys are the reason that we have battled relegation for the last 5yrs. For some, like Hutton, its simply a case of quality rather than application, but others have carried an attitude that is quite frankly shameful. When GH came to the club there were stories that he was unhappy with the professionalism and attitude of the squad, and that some had rebelled against his hard line stance, now he obviously fell ill so its impossible to predict how that would have panned out. I've got a feeling that Garde may be cut from the same clothe, he seems utterly bewildered at the shambles he has inherited and has shown with his treatment of Grealish and Gabby that he won't suffer fools. Relegation may make it easier for him to rip the squad to pieces and start again. I hope he gets the chance to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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