Davkaus Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 The best and brightest in the cabinet will be planning to send in the navy to show Rwanda what's what. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 13 hours ago, Davkaus said: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lee-anderson-offered-money-defect-reform-party-03fktxrl2 It's from one of the biggest bullshitters in parliament, but some interesting snippets here. I'm almost the exact opposite of their demographic, but I'd almost, almost, be tempted to hold my nose if they stood for PR and nobody else did. Interesting that they think Labour would want to bring it in, can't see it myself. Hung parliaments where nothing ever gets done? What like in almost every democratic European country with PR? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 27, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2023 40 minutes ago, Davkaus said: The best and brightest in the cabinet will be planning to send in the navy to show Rwanda what's what. I think Gun Boats is the phrase you are looking for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, sidcow said: I think Gun Boats is the phrase you are looking for. Gun boats, but small enough to be put on the back of a low loader lorry. Luckily, I believe we have quite a stockpile of small boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 The final nail in the Rwanda policy would be if Rwanda pull out of the deal calling the UK government a bunch of words removed. Can I have that for Christmas please? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 25 minutes ago, Genie said: The final nail in the Rwanda policy would be if Rwanda pull out of the deal calling the UK government a bunch of words removed. Can I have that for Christmas please? Think all the nails have already been hammered in. There's now no more time to get any additional legislation on it through before the next election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Think all the nails have already been hammered in. There's now no more time to get any additional legislation on it through before the next election. It’s purely for the humiliation factor. If and when Rwanda realise it isn’t going to happen they should get ahead of the story and call Sunak and co what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 57 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Gun boats, but small enough to be put on the back of a low loader lorry. Luckily, I believe we have quite a stockpile of small boats. not enough lorry drivers though, damn you brexit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: It’s purely for the humiliation factor. If and when Rwanda realise it isn’t going to happen they should get ahead of the story and call Sunak and co what they are. Fairly sure Rwanda will have worked out its some sort of scam by now. ’hey guys, I’ve had another email saying this bloke wants to send us £200million but we’re not to talk to the ECHR’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 14 hours ago, bickster said: Already posted about this in the Tory thread but as much as I want PR, I really couldn’t vote for them but being as the LibDems also want PR (and the Greens) it’s unlikely they’d be the only party with it in their manifesto. I do agree though that Labour will not as it currently stands have PR in the manifesto. I think the interesting aspect in all of this is that it has the Tories shit scared and after a spell in the political wilderness with Reform pushing the throbbers towards PR the Tories might. The flip side to that is that PR might actually put the throbby Tories off from switching to Reform, which I think will be the Tory tactic. As Anderson ably demonstrates, a vote for Reform is a vote for Labour and all that. That will almost certainly be the short term Tory tactic It's unlikely the Tories, Like Labour are going to voluntarily change the system that's kept one or the other in power for a century. We all know what's going to happen with Reform etc. There'll be a backroom deal done on deadline day to withdraw their throbby candidates again in exchange for vague promises about how throbby the Tories are willing to be if they get re-elected. The only difference this time is whether they're willing to talk to the Tories when they're led by someone they hate as much as Sunak...which I'm sure has nothing at all to do with his race... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Fairly sure Rwanda will have worked out its some sort of scam by now. ’hey guys, I’ve had another email saying this bloke wants to send us £200million but we’re not to talk to the ECHR’ If they’ve got any sense they’ll ask for more and more money upfront for “infrastructure”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 minute ago, desensitized43 said: It's unlikely the Tories, Like Labour are going to voluntarily change the system that's kept one or the other in power for a century. I don't see the Tory Party as a credible election force under FPTP in two election cycles, I don't even think they'll be the opposition in that timeframe. Also in that timeframe Reform, where they will have potentially haemorrhaged votes to, will have pushed PR into the throbbers minds and once it's there you can't get it back. Instinctively the Tories may not want PR but tactically they may have to adopt it as policy I'm also not sure the Reform backroom deal is on this time, if it is, Reform lose all credibility after stating there'll be a full slate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: It's unlikely the Tories, Like Labour are going to voluntarily change the system that's kept one or the other in power for a century. We all know what's going to happen with Reform etc. There'll be a backroom deal done on deadline day to withdraw their throbby candidates again in exchange for vague promises about how throbby the Tories are willing to be if they get re-elected. Don't think there will this time. Reform have their blueprint, and the names are even the same. In 1993 Canada's Progressive Conservative Party party went from 156 seats down to just 2, largely because of pressure from the right from Preston Manning's (basically the proto-Farage) Reform Party, who went from 1 seat to 52. With the mainstream Tory party more or less wiped out, Reform then "merged" back with the remains of the PCP to create a new Conservative Party of Canada, with the Reform policies / people but the prestige and infrastructure of the older party. Last time I checked, they were on track to win the next Canadian election. It's not 2019, Reform don't want to help the Tories keep Labour out - they now want the Tories to be wiped out so that they can take their place. Edited November 27, 2023 by ml1dch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 hour ago, bickster said: I don't see the Tory Party as a credible election force under FPTP in two election cycles, I don't even think they'll be the opposition in that timeframe. Also in that timeframe Reform, where they will have potentially haemorrhaged votes to, will have pushed PR into the throbbers minds and once it's there you can't get it back. Instinctively the Tories may not want PR but tactically they may have to adopt it as policy I'm also not sure the Reform backroom deal is on this time, if it is, Reform lose all credibility after stating there'll be a full slate Well the goal with these parties has always been to influence the direction of the Tories more to the right, not to actually cost them seats as they're clearly of the opinion that a Labour would be worse for their goals. It's more the looming threat of annihilation that they've been using rather than the actual practice of them full on going for the Tories. If that's changed then sure it's possible that would happen, but a threat when the Tories don't really believe they'll follow through on it is surely ineffective. It's a giant game of chicken really, isnt it? I don't think the Tories necessarily see being out of power for 1 or 2 cycles as a reason to burn the system to the ground and start again. I'm sure they'll just see it as part of the ebb and flow of our system. One that's been massively advantegous to them for a century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2023 6 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: I don't think the Tories necessarily see being out of power for 1 or 2 cycles as a reason to burn the system to the ground and start again. That can easily change in two election cycles where they become the third (or even fourth) placed party. The Tories will not be out of power for just one or two election cycles IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 A couple of election cycles for someone else to spend the money to fix hospitals, fix hospital staff, fix hospital waiting lists, fix the broken schools etc.. Then the tories can pop back and announce this crazy spending is out of control. We will be the party of common sense spending, teaching the teachers a lesson, and putting money in your pocket. Then, a couple of cycles after that… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: hen the tories can pop back and announce this crazy spending is out of control. In ten years time, who is voting Tory in significant numbers, who are they voting for now? The death spiral has been going on since before 1997, there are whole generations that already don't vote for them. It takes time but they've now speeded up the inevitable. In 10 / 15 / 20 years time, which demographic do you see giving them the support they need? Once the baby boomer age bubble has popped where do they get support from? To people of my generation and below, that grew up in the Miners strike and the Thatcher years the brand is utterly toxic. I just can't see them being an electoral force EDIT: Anyway - wrong thread for all this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 17 minutes ago, bickster said: In ten years time, who is voting Tory in significant numbers, who are they voting for now? They’ll have to change tack majorly. Maybe they’ll make Uni fees free or cheap to get the youth, and middle aged (those paying the fees) vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2023 52 minutes ago, Genie said: They’ll have to change tack majorly. Maybe they’ll make Uni fees free or cheap to get the youth, and middle aged (those paying the fees) vote. It definitely won't be that. That would be communist 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 minute ago, bickster said: It definitely won't be that. That would be communist True, but as you’ve said they’re currently on course to spend a very long time in the political wilderness. They will have to dramatically change their stance somewhere (which I assume they will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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