HanoiVillan Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I will repeat my point; it's not the guns that kill, it's the people Ridiculous straw man argument. Impossible to debate that. Exactly! You cannot argue a point like that! Other countries such as Switzerland do not have that problem, which suggests that maybe it's not the number of guns that is to be blamed... In Switzerland, as part of national service, once people have completed their stint in the armed forces, they are required to keep the weapon, they become an auxiliary of sorts. 46% is roughly equal to the number of people who were conscripted into national service. They didn't go out and buy a gun. Most of those people come out of the military and put the gun in a cellar or a locked box or an attic and never want to see it again. In fact, following the 2007 change that meant they didn't have to, most of these people don't keep ammunition for these guns. In addition to all of the facts given to you there by OBE?, it should be pointed out that 99% of ammunition that was issued prior to 2007 has been taken back by the Swiss government, and that any ammunition purchased at a shooting range must be used there. The Swiss do love firing guns, and are encouraged to do so by the government because the country operates a militia-defence system and has basically no standing army. However, the way they do this, and the only legal way in which they do this, is to take their service weapon from home to the shooting range, unloaded, then load it there with ammo, fire it all there, and then return home with an unloaded weapon. If you can't already see why this situation is no way analagous to the USA then you're not trying. You (Mic09) still haven't explained to me how wider ownership of guns would have helped prevent a massacre in a church in concealed-carry, stand-your-ground South Carolina. Edited June 20, 2015 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post il_serpente Posted June 20, 2015 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) This guy nails it, and is funny as hell in the process: http://youtu.be/lL8JEEt2RxI Edited June 20, 2015 by limpid fixed embed 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponky Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Don't know the precise stats but gun crime is very rare here in Australia. Since the Port Arthur massacre in the early 90s only licensed people with a specific reason ie. Farmers, security guards etc. Yes the crims still get their hands on guns but in general they are old legacy guns from pre-amnesty and often even home made. It's never simplistic but in general guns don't kill people, but people with guns kill people. The fewer people with guns the better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 20, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2015 As someone has pointed out, the difference between the UK and the US (apart from scale) is the differing incidence of domestic shootings. Yes, there are criminals with guns here. But they mostly get used in intra-gang crime and bank robberies, etc. And yes, we have had our tragedies like Hungerford and Dunblane, but what you almost never get is family and neighbours shooting each other, or kids having tragic accidents - because 99.9% of people do not have guns in their houses. Sadly, that situation is never going to come about in the USA now. The genie is indeed out of the bottle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieZ Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) This guy nails it, and is funny as hell in the process: http://youtu.be/lL8JEEt2RxI I just came here to post that! I wish the issue were just about guns, but it's not. I mean, it's about guns—don't get me wrong—but it's also about a deeply entrenched social and institutional racism, and the country has a long road ahead of us if we're going to come out the other side. I think the good news is that it's past the point where the majority of the population can continue to ignore it. It's getting harder, even as a white resident in a small city in the North, to say, "Everything's fine. Things happen from time to time, but it's not a social issue." It's a social issue. It's an American issue, and it's one that's not going to go away by itself or one that can be solved with a quick fix. America has a race problem; it pre-existed automatic weapons and it would still exist with stricter gun control laws in place. Do I wish there were stricter gun control? Of course. I don't have a gun. I can't think of one conceivable reason that I would personally want to own a gun. Guns are freely available to me (apparently) and I still don't want a gun. The problem is, the people that see the wisdom and logic in the arguments against ready public access to high-powered firearms aren't the people who need convincing. So I don't know what to do about that. Edited June 20, 2015 by JamieZ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I remember a line from one of chris rocks stand ups where he says if bullets cost 5 thousand dollars there would be no more innocent victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieZ Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I remember a line from one of chris rocks stand ups where he says if bullets cost 5 thousand dollars there would be no more innocent victims. It wouldn't be very profitable, though. And how much of American policy comes down to what's profitable? Edited June 20, 2015 by JamieZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 20, 2015 Moderator Share Posted June 20, 2015 This guy nails it, and is funny as hell in the process: http://youtu.be/lL8JEEt2RxI I just came here to post that! I wish the issue were just about guns, but it's not. I mean, it's about guns—don't get me wrong—but it's also about a deeply entrenched social and institutional racism, and the country has a long road ahead of us if we're going to come out the other side. I think the good news is that it's past the point where the majority of the population can continue to ignore it. It's getting harder, even as a white resident in a small city in the North, to say, "Everything's fine. Things happen from time to time, but it's not a social issue." It's a social issue. It's an American issue, and it's one that's not going to go away by itself or one that can be solved with a quick fix. America has a race problem; it pre-existed automatic weapons and it would still exist with stricter gun control laws in place. Do I wish there were stricter gun control? Of course. I don't have a gun. I can't think of one conceivable reason that I would personally want to own a gun. Guns are freely available to me (apparently) and I still don't want a gun. The problem is, the people that see the wisdom and logic in the arguments against ready public access to high-powered firearms aren't the people who need convincing. So I don't know what to do about that. Shoot them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted June 21, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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