The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[MakemineVanilla]

The death of Healey is a strong reminder of where Labour went wrong in the 1970s and 1980s.

The rejection of Barbara Castle's 'In Place of Strife' (1969)(a) and the choice of Foot rather than Healey as leader (1980)(b), led to the election of Thatcher(a)and her subsequent eleven years in Number Ten (b).

 

Am I missing something? Thatcher was elected in '79 . . . 

What I am suggesting is that the rejection of 'In Place of Strife' led to the union disruption of the 1970s and the subsequent backlash (voting in the Tories) and that choosing Foot over the more moderate Healey, ensured that the Tories stayed in power. 

Nope even Thatcher herself said it was the Falklands that got her re-elected. Until then she had the lowest approval rating of any post war PM

I was reading something last week that said that analysis of that particular election revealed that only 3 percentage points of the Tory vote was down to the Falklands war, and that it was the improving economy which was the real factor.

So I tend to think it is just another myth just like blaming the unions for the economic problems of the 1970s rather than the 'oil shock'.

Not to mention that the Tories won two more elections after that one.

 

Edited October 5, 2015 by MakemineVanilla
Update

[tonyh29]

Surprised the left aren't complaining about this new tax introduced today that unfairly targets the poor   ... really need a two tier bag system whereby the rich pay 7p for their plastic bags

You know what they say about words said in jest...

Edit: On the use of bags, it's very rare that I don't take a bag for life with me when going shopping and when doing a week/fortnight shop I use the bags for life that are kept in the boot of the car. I really don't think it's a terribly difficult thing for people to get in to the habit of doing.

I suspect it was around the time when the Welsh implemented the rule but the Tesco near me went through a phase of removing the carrier bags from the checkouts in a bid to reduce the numbers needed ... it lasted about 3 days by which point presumably people had complained sufficiently about the inconvenience it was causing them ...  maybe the charge will encourage them to do the obvious and carry bags with them from now on

 

[darrenm]

Why doesn't everyone get their shopping delivered?

Tesco bring our stuff in bags, we give them back last week's.

[tonyh29]

The death of Healey is a strong reminder of where Labour went wrong in the 1970s and 1980s.

The rejection of Barbara Castle's 'In Place of Strife' (1969)(a) and the choice of Foot rather than Healey as leader (1980)(b), led to the election of Thatcher(a)and her subsequent eleven years in Number Ten (b).

 

Am I missing something? Thatcher was elected in '79 . . . 

What I am suggesting is that the rejection of 'In Place of Strife' led to the union disruption of the 1970s and the subsequent backlash (voting in the Tories) and that choosing Foot over the more moderate Healey, ensured that the Tories stayed in power. 

Nope even Thatcher herself said it was the Falklands that got her re-elected. Until then she had the lowest approval rating of any post war PM

I was reading something last week that said that analysis of that particular election revealed that only 3 percentage points of the Tory vote was down to the Falklands war, and that it was the improving economy which was the real factor.

So I tend to think it is just another myth just like blaming the unions for the economic problems of the 1970s rather than the 'oil shock'.

Not to mention that the Tories won two more elections after that one.

 

 

Personally I  don't think Foot would have won even if Thatcher had shot Bambi between the eyes live on TV .. they were mainly campaigning with "the longest suicide note in history"  and some of the Labour vote will almost certainly have gone to the SDP ( Labours 83 vote was down around 3 m on their 79 vote  .. coincidently around the same number of votes the SDP received)

The Falklands meant Thatcher went to the Polls a year early , she \ her advisers clearly decided to cash in the popularity .... but you can't say for 100% certainty it was the only reason she won as she would have had another 12 months before having to go to the polls and any number of factors could have then come into play  .. the economy had returned to growth in 1983  for example

 

 

Edited October 5, 2015 by tonyh29

[Wainy316]

Why doesn't everyone get their shopping delivered?

 

Because they send you shopping with a one day shelf life.

[bickster]

Why doesn't everyone get their shopping delivered?

Tesco bring our stuff in bags, we give them back last week's.

Often don't know what I want until I get there. Like right now, don't know what I'm cooking for tea, so I'll decide when I'm there. I shop on a daily basis too, as and when I'm on my way past the supermarket on  a necessary journey elsewhere. I don't understand how people can decide what they are eating next Tuesday on the previous Saturday for example

[Dodgyknees]

Why doesn't everyone get their shopping delivered?

Tesco bring our stuff in bags, we give them back last week's.

Often don't know what I want until I get there. Like right now, don't know what I'm cooking for tea, so I'll decide when I'm there. I shop on a daily basis too, as and when I'm on my way past the supermarket on  a necessary journey elsewhere. I don't understand how people can decide what they are eating next Tuesday on the previous Saturday for example

Yep, same here.

[choffer]

Surprised the left aren't complaining about this new tax introduced today that unfairly targets the poor   ... really need a two tier bag system whereby the rich pay 7p for their plastic bags

You know what they say about words said in jest...

Edit: On the use of bags, it's very rare that I don't take a bag for life with me when going shopping and when doing a week/fortnight shop I use the bags for life that are kept in the boot of the car. I really don't think it's a terribly difficult thing for people to get in to the habit of doing.

I suspect it was around the time when the Welsh implemented the rule but the Tesco near me went through a phase of removing the carrier bags from the checkouts in a bid to reduce the numbers needed ... it lasted about 3 days by which point presumably people had complained sufficiently about the inconvenience it was causing them ...  maybe the charge will encourage them to do the obvious and carry bags with them from now on

 

What Tesco will do in England is exactly what they did in Wales and Scotland. They'll remove all the bags-for-life from sale as they'll make a lot more money selling the 5p ones.

[darrenm]

Why doesn't everyone get their shopping delivered?

Tesco bring our stuff in bags, we give them back last week's.

Often don't know what I want until I get there. Like right now, don't know what I'm cooking for tea, so I'll decide when I'm there. I shop on a daily basis too, as and when I'm on my way past the supermarket on  a necessary journey elsewhere. I don't understand how people can decide what they are eating next Tuesday on the previous Saturday for example

Yep, same here.

Interesting. My life is far too predictable.

[MakemineVanilla]

From Tesco's site:

Remember, there's no charge for using your own carrier bags but we won’t be awarding green Clubcard points for doing this anymore.

So Tesco will be gaining from the new law.

The question is whether, if the money is going towards Green projects which will be about building green spaces for the community, I still have to decide whether it is better to spend 5p to create these tangible benefits, or not spend 5p for creating an intangible result.

And what about those poor people who will lose their jobs when the demand for carrier bags crashes, should I feel sorry for them?

 

[chrisp65]

except they don't make any money with the 5p or 10p ones

the money has to be donated to good causes (here)

 

as for shopping routines - yep, supermarket is on my route home, so generally pick up fresh stuff as and when we need it - when Waitrose are knocking money off everything because it's gone 6:00pm and I'm shopping for that evening's meal at 6:05pm it makes for some great mix n match meals, 'look kids, yoghurt and steak tonight!'

 

 

 

[bickster]

except they don't make any money with the 5p or 10p ones

the money has to be donated to good causes (here)

 

as for shopping routines - yep, supermarket is on my route home, so generally pick up fresh stuff as and when we need it - when Waitrose are knocking money off everything because it's gone 6:00pm and I'm shopping for that evening's meal at 6:05pm it makes for some great mix n match meals, 'look kids, yoghurt and steak tonight!'

 

 

 

You need to be there just after 9, thats when they put out the stuff going out of date tomorrow. :mrgreen:

[snowychap]

except they don't make any money with the 5p or 10p ones

the money has to be donated to good causes (here)

Are you sure?

Government website says:

Once you’ve deducted reasonable costs, it’s expected that you’ll donate all proceeds to good causes.

[bickster]

Surprised the left aren't complaining about this new tax introduced today that unfairly targets the poor   ... really need a two tier bag system whereby the rich pay 7p for their plastic bags

Its the right that whine about green taxes

Ahhhhh but is alive and well it seems

Well not not really, the ahh but defence is a x did this so supporters of x say Y did similar in defence of x's actions

This one is just, no you are plain wrong.

[chrisp65]

Bicks,

My local Waitrose is a bit of an anomaly, it was part of the Morrisons / Safeway deal where they had to hand over a certain number of sites to competitors. They gave the Cadoxton site to Waitrose - a poor location in a poor area given to the lah dee dah supermarket of middle england.

They try not to stay open after dark - it's like The Omega Man over Cadoxton after about 7:00pm. Discounting starts at 6, shutters up and site empty by 8.

Snowy,

All I know is that locally, we apply for the bag money for various community groups and we always get at least a portion of what we ask for. Locally, it's been a good thing for lifeguards, brownies, kiddy football, community gardens et al.

[PongRiddims]

except they don't make any money with the 5p or 10p ones

the money has to be donated to good causes (here)

Are you sure?

Government website says:

Once you’ve deducted reasonable costs, it’s expected that you’ll donate all proceeds to good causes.

I'm quite sure the bloke that runs the papershop by me is charging 5p a bag now, dubious of his charitable contributions too.

Anyone what grown man leaves the house without his Sainsbury's bag for life #ghetto #thebaglifechoseme

[bickster]

Bicks,

My local Waitrose is a bit of an anomaly, it was part of the Morrisons / Safeway deal where they had to hand over a certain number of sites to competitors. They gave the Cadoxton site to Waitrose - a poor location in a poor area given to the lah dee dah supermarket of middle england.

They try not to stay open after dark - it's like The Omega Man over Cadoxton after about 7:00pm. Discounting starts at 6, shutters up and site empty by 8.

Snowy,

All I know is that locally, we apply for the bag money for various community groups and we always get at least a portion of what we ask for. Locally, it's been a good thing for lifeguards, brownies, kiddy football, community gardens et al.

Ours was too but you'd have to question what the hell Safeway was doing in Formby in the first place. Some of the highest House Prices in Northern England and the incomes that go with it.

 

Think ours shuts at 9. It took a while but they gradually pushed the opening and closing times backwards and forwards. It opens at 8 now, used to be 9! Shuts at 9, used to be 7. M and S over the road actually went the other way and opened later and shut earlier but that shop is plain weird. How can you have a Simply Food that is half full of clothes? Shit clothes at that too in a village where nobody say I know, I'll go clothes shopping

 

Hope Corbyn sorts this nonsense out eventually

[chrisp65]

They had a break in at our Waitrose when it was first rebranded. CCTV showed them dropping in through the roof, making straight for the sweets and leaving with a carrier bag full each. All whole night to take whatever they wanted and they smashed through about £50 worth of haribo.

I'm guessing it wasn't some hardcore London firm up the M4 on a blag.

Life will be a lot easier under Corbyn when we all wear mid blue tunics and have an allotment for wholesome vegetables.

Tony's going to struggle growing his own swan burgers. 

[snowychap]

Snowy,

All I know is that locally, we apply for the bag money for various community groups and we always get at least a portion of what we ask for. Locally, it's been a good thing for lifeguards, brownies, kiddy football, community gardens et al.

Have you requested copies of 'carrier bag records', though? (Also as per the link)

I imagine that it probably does go to 'causes' but it's the 'expect' bit which is interesting. I doubt the government will give a rat's arse where the money actually goes as long as the forecast £19m in VAT gets ponied up.

[tonyh29]

Surprised the left aren't complaining about this new tax introduced today that unfairly targets the poor   ... really need a two tier bag system whereby the rich pay 7p for their plastic bags

Its the right that whine about green taxes

Ahhhhh but is alive and well it seems

Well not not really, the ahh but defence is a x did this so supporters of x say Y did similar in defence of x's actions

This one is just, no you are plain wrong.

How can I be plain wrong when I didn't put forward the argument  that you countered with to start with     .... I referred to it as a regressive tax targeting the poor , not a green one ..I'm awarding myself the internet by default as your argument was so flawed

Edited October 5, 2015 by tonyh29