Chindie Posted April 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2021 37 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: At least with Corbyn still in charge at the moment there would be a clear and obvious reason why they were still tanking in the polls. I do wonder where the AS stuff would have gone by now. Perhaps some blueprints for camps to be built under the next Labour government suddenly appearing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 39 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: At least with Corbyn still in charge at the moment there would be a clear and obvious reason why they were still tanking in the polls. With Corbyn in charge, there would be a reason they are *prepared to admit to themselves* that they are tanking in the polls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 16, 2021 Author Share Posted April 16, 2021 Starmer needs time to be judged and he has that. Dont be so quick to write him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2021 1 hour ago, dAVe80 said: like claiming you invented the question mark That's an interrogation point, right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2021 With the absolute avalanche of negativity, misrepresenting or not representing at all that Labour under Corbyn received on pretty much every regular media outlet, and the basic complete opposite of that which Starmer has had, 29% is utter sh*te. Forget the long game lads, Labour is a non entity now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2021 We've not even reached the mid point of the election cycle yet. The polls at this stage only have a limited use. The differences would shorten very quickly if an election were called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 1 minute ago, bickster said: We've not even reached the mid point of the election cycle yet. The polls at this stage only have a limited use. The differences would shorten very quickly if an election were called. I said that in 2019 because they did in 2017. Alas, in 2019 they didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, darrenm said: I said that in 2019 because they did in 2017. Alas, in 2019 they didn't Well they would have shot up 20 points had Starmer been in charge.. no, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Labour will continue to struggle whilst the press is anti Labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 1 minute ago, avfcDJ said: Labour will continue to struggle whilst the press is anti Labour Starmer has quite clearly had a much easier ride than Corbyn so you can't really say that the press have been anti Labour since Starmer has been in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2021 1 hour ago, avfcDJ said: Labour will continue to struggle whilst the press is anti Labour Alternatively... the press is not so pro-Tory, it's a subtle difference but it can make a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2021 If the blame is shifting to negative press coverage of Labour under Starmer then we really are in the last throes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 My take as a neutral observer these days: You can't win from the centre since the advent of social media, the 247 news cycle and the desperate need of people to be entertained to stave off the boredom. Trying to do sensible politics no longer works. Blair didn't have Facebook, Twitter and Instagram around. He didn't have people watching parliament live cheering on votes like it's a football match. You've got to be populist. Brexit 2016, Trump 2016, Corbyn 2017 (yes I know), Johnson 2019, all populist. For Starmer to win in 2024 or whenever, he'd need: The left on side. That involves talking up Corbyn (or at least his policies) and reinstating him. Some really show stopping policies like the stuff of 2019 minus a couple that could be made fun of. The BBC not being the Tory shield. Murdoch and other billionaire press barons not being the Tory propaganda. If anyone can see the above happening then great, the Tories are out in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 44 minutes ago, darrenm said: My take as a neutral observer these days: You can't win from the centre since the advent of social media, the 247 news cycle and the desperate need of people to be entertained to stave off the boredom. Trying to do sensible politics no longer works. Blair didn't have Facebook, Twitter and Instagram around. He didn't have people watching parliament live cheering on votes like it's a football match. You've got to be populist. Brexit 2016, Trump 2016, Corbyn 2017 (yes I know), Johnson 2019, all populist. How does Biden 2020 fit into this narrative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, ml1dch said: How does Biden 2020 fit into this narrative? There wasn't much of a sweep with Biden. Considering the car crash that Trump was turning America in to, Biden's victory was really underwhelming. Also, Biden kept Bernie close so he had the US left with him. Biden is now doing some really impressive things and seems to have got the victory on don't scare the fishes then start being radical in office which is what Starmer's team obviously see as their route to victory too. Biden was already starting from a decent place with the Democrats and there was a real sense of 'we have to do everything to stop the right' with everyone who wasn't a MAGA. As I say, considering the weight of the media (they're much more balanced over there), celebs, consolidation of the vote, Biden really should have been steamrollering to victory. In the end it wasn't as close as feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Well they would have shot up 20 points had Starmer been in charge.. no, wait... I actually thought that would be the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, darrenm said: Biden's victory was really underwhelming Curious as to how you determine that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, darrenm said: Biden is now doing some really impressive things and seems to have got the victory on don't scare the fishes then start being radical in office which is what Starmer's team obviously see as their route to victory too. Sadly I think you are overestimating both how radical Biden is, and how likely Starmer is to attempt even similarly small degrees of progressive social policy. By rights, it should be embarrassing that Democrats are doing more progressive stuff than the Labour right would want to do, but the people advising Starmer are fine with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 35 minutes ago, bickster said: Curious as to how you determine that? I was just expecting a landslide and it was pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2021 Just now, darrenm said: I was just expecting a landslide and it was pretty close. That was a bit of an unreal expectation to be honest but anyway... Labour. I was just genuinely curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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