blandy Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said: Like I say, there aren't enough likes to express how much I agree with you on the 'secret others' point you make Brilliant. Thanks. It's why I responded to "the idea that there definitely isn't some sort of 'secret-state in league with some dark forces' .. is quite simply fanciful." in the way that I did. Your post deserves a longer reply, but I don't have time right now. Maybe later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 9 hours ago, bickster said: Sounds like a load of shit to me. We need less public holidays, not more. If it were me, I'd have Jesus' Fake Birthday, Boxing Day and NYD and be done with it. The rest are utter nonsense. Give me more control over my statutory holidays please, I'd rather choose when I'm off work for my own convenience. Why do I want 2 days in May, 2 days at Easter, whenever the church decides when that is and a day off in August. I'd rather have the extra week off work when I want it. Fewer, not less, and no we don't. We have comparatively few public holidays compared to our neighbours, and generally work some of the longest hours in the EU. The answer for most people to the question of 'why do I want public holidays at the same time as other people' is 'so I can spend them with friends or family'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 4 hours ago, VILLAMARV said: With Trump, I put some stock in the notion that ignoring him and sneering at him all the way to the Whitehouse as he spouted his drivel ended up doing more harm than good, in the exact same way that attempting to deride Farage, rather than his message, emboldened the OUT vote at our own referendum. Another snippet of a reply. I know what you're saying, but I don't think it's accurate. If anything the opposite is true (IMO). These two effwits were not ignored, they have been given more coverage, air time and publicity than almost anyone else (in similar positions). Garage is apparently the most frequent guest on that shouty Question-time programme over the past decade. The media is and was wall to wall Trump. You're on to something with the "derision thing", though. It and they need to be treated with fact based derision - so rather than call Farage or Trump frog faced or orange shit-gibbons, pointing out their lies and then calling them out on being liars is the way to do it, or to point out their hypocrisy with examples. To expose them as frauds, repeatedly. What actually happened was people ignored their lies and slated them generally, far too often, I agree. Taking this vaguely on topic, there's another factor, too. A sort of sticky effect. People who like Trump/Farage/Corbyn kind of make up their minds and stick to that. It's tribal allegiance. Their man can do no wrong, any criticism is void or seeking to undermine etc. (see anti-semitism). I really don't think much of Corbyn as a party leader or God help us, future PM (but about 50% of Labour's policies are good with me). I will never vote Labour with Corbyn leading them. Others will vote Labour purely because of Corbyn. In that regard it's personality politics, which is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Fewer, not less, and no we don't. We have comparatively few public holidays compared to our neighbours, and generally work some of the longest hours in the EU. The answer for most people to the question of 'why do I want public holidays at the same time as other people' is 'so I can spend them with friends or family'. So the reason people like public holidays is that they can't organise a piss up in a brewery between themselves. OK that's a great reason Just imagine all those people who want to meet up, all arrange to take the same day off with the extra five days they've got to choose from. You've just inferred that public holidays are for the unorganised 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: the question of 'why do I want public holidays at the same time as other people' is 'so I can spend them with friends or family'. I thought the full answer was "so I can spend time with friends or family in a massive traffic jam on the M5". I'd obviously be happy to be granted another BH, but I'm with Bicks, being granted an extra days to take when I want is better. It's a gimmick, but a harmless one, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just now, bickster said: for the unorganised @HanoiVillan is going to "dis" you for that as well. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, blandy said: @HanoiVillan is going to "dis" you for that as well. It's Sunday, my inner grammar nazi is having a day off 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, bickster said: So the reason people like public holidays is that they can't organise a piss up in a brewery between themselves. OK that's a great reason Just imagine all those people who want to meet up, all arrange to take the same day off with the extra five days they've got to choose from. You've just inferred that public holidays are for the unorganised I hate to be 'That Guy' but not everybody works in a place where they have so much flexibility over their time off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I hate to be 'That Guy' but not everybody works in a place where they have so much flexibility over their time off. Well maybe a more worthwhile campaign would be to give workers greater flexibility on annual leave. You know give people some freedom instead of taking it away 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, bickster said: Well maybe a more worthwhile campaign would be to give workers greater flexibility on annual leave. You know give people some freedom instead of taking it away Sure. And in the meantime, let's have a day off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Sure. And in the meantime, let's have a day off. You do realise that's a day off you'd be getting anyway, you'd just be told when to take it It's not a net gain, it's a net loss Nowhere does the Labour Party say let's have a day off and add it to your annual leave entitlement Gimmicky bollex that ever so slightly erodes a workers choices 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, bickster said: You do realise that's a day off you'd be getting anyway, you'd just be told when to take it It's not a net gain, it's a net loss Nowhere does the Labour Party say let's have a day off and add it to your annual leave entitlement Gimmicky bollex that ever so slightly erodes a workers choices Eh? The proposal is for a 'national bank holiday'? Bank holidays don't count in your annual leave entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Eh? The proposal is for a 'national bank holiday'? Bank holidays don't count in your annual leave entitlement. Yes they do, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Yes they do Looking into that, it seems you're right. Fair enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Looking into that, it seems you're right. Fair enough. it would mean that workers would only get 3 Full weeks (19 days) and not 4 Full weeks (20 days) Its one day but a huge difference. And if the Labour Party added 3 public holidays, I'll leave you to decide how shit that would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 minute ago, bickster said: it would mean that workers would only get 3 Full weeks (19 days) and not 4 Full weeks 20 days) Yeah, I take your point. However, on the other hand, it would mean you got one of those days at exactly the same time as everyone else you know and might want to spend a day off with. Pluses and minuses. Anyway, it's not going to happen, so it probably isn't worth any more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I suspect that people who don't have fairly flexible annual leave arrangements also tend to work in jobs that require people work bank holidays, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Yep, nhs 24 hour service based moan again but I’ve no idea what a bank holiday is anymore. We have to fight with each other to see which couple of people get Christmas off while the rest work. As much as this pains me to say, I agree with Bicks . I’d much rather have the allotted amount of BH days a year added on to my number of A/L days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Many employees would get the option of additional money and / or time off in lieu for working a B/H. So for some, it's a potential little treat. A shout out here for Greggs, they'd pay extra for working a B/H and then give an alternative day off. Whereas a day's leave is just a day's leave. But that's all academic, this government is so locked in there's no chance of the opposition unseating them. Even with all the excellent high profile opposing they are doing 24/7. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted July 9, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2018 Not just horrible bastards, but a **** shambles with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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