juanpabloangel18 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 37 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: Does anyone else think Labour might be better off with Raynor at the helm? Yeh I'm a fan. Amazing (inspiring) journey. She has clearly worked on her image since the "Tory Scum" criticism, the Tories seem terrified of her, she's quick, witty, honest, and has empathy for normal working people. But then again, she's got an accent, so 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted July 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 27, 2022 56 minutes ago, bickster said: Why would ANY Labour Party MP with half a brain cell want to drive members and workers into the hands of a cultist Trotskyite 4Th International political party who will gladly take a cut of each workers wage to pay for the revolution See that’s the really ironic thing here, the Socialist Party want their weekly / monthly donations so liberating the worker of any hard earned gains they might make them. Been there got the t-shirt and it didn’t fit It’s just a cult, Trotskyites are the Political Equivalent of Jehovah’s Witnesses I'm not sure of the politics of Mick but what he's saying is hitting the nail on the head for many working people , Labour supporters. Starmers missed the boat here, he's misjudged the mood of what's going on. He should have stayed neutral. Labour stands for nothing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 23 minutes ago, tinker said: I'm not sure of the politics of Mick but what he's saying is hitting the nail on the head for many working people , Labour supporters. Starmers missed the boat here, he's misjudged the mood of what's going on. He should have stayed neutral. Labour stands for nothing. They stand for lots of things. They're just waiting for the next tory manifesto to tell you what they are, then they'll be a centimetre to the left, with a veneer of integrity and competence. You can trust Kier. He doesn't believe a damn thing he said to become leader of the Labour party, but make him PM, and it'll work out, honest. You know it makes sense. Just needs to make sure they win, that's the important thing, then he'll do what he really believes in. Fingers crossed, that's something that aligns with your views. Can't say what he really wants to do because it'll alienate people, which is cerrtainly a reasonable position and not outrageously anti-democratic nonsense. Have I mentioned he's competent? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 My offer of heading up a mostly benign dictatorship is still on the table, btw. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, juanpabloangel18 said: Yeh I'm a fan. Amazing (inspiring) journey. She has clearly worked on her image since the "Tory Scum" criticism, the Tories seem terrified of her, she's quick, witty, honest, and has empathy for normal working people. But then again, she's got an accent, so It wasn't a slip of the tongue, she was actually demonstrating her knowledge of Labour's history and was echoing the sentiments of Aneurin Bevan when he described the Tories as "lower than vermin" back in 1950. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted July 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 27, 2022 38 minutes ago, Davkaus said: They stand for lots of things. They're just waiting for the next tory manifesto to tell you what they are, then they'll be a centimetre to the left, with a veneer of integrity and competence. You can trust Kier. He doesn't believe a damn thing he said to become leader of the Labour party, but make him PM, and it'll work out, honest. You know it makes sense. Just needs to make sure they win, that's the important thing, then he'll do what he really believes in. Fingers crossed, that's something that aligns with your views. Can't say what he really wants to do because it'll alienate people, which is cerrtainly a reasonable position and not outrageously anti-democratic nonsense. Have I mentioned he's competent? It's going to come to a head before he even gets chance. Whoever gets power ( of the Tories) is going to push through new labour laws on strikes, it's going to make it harder for workers to withdraw their labour in protest at poor conditions or a lack of pay. It's my guess that by the time this happens there will be enough public support for higher wages to cover inflation that the whole thing will blow up and Starmers lack of a clear mandate on unions will back fire, the Tories will rip him and Labour apart and leave the workers of this country , the PAYE ones , in the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Ingram85 said: Does anyone else think Labour might be better off with Raynor at the helm? Yes. Swap the roles. She’s really good at the sales pitch ( to me ). He’s good at the strategy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Ingram85 said: Does anyone else think Labour might be better off with Raynor at the helm? No, she’s unpopular with swing voters. I like her, but can’t see it being a success. Think Starmer, for all his faults, does have a reasonable chance of beating the Tories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, blandy said: Yes. Swap the roles. She’s really good at the sales pitch ( to me ). He’s good at the strategy stuff. She’s an attack dog. I think she belongs in a senior role, but not leader / PM. More suited to a position where she can shoot from the hip and humiliate people. My preferred leader if Labour got rid of Starmer would probably be Yvette Cooper. Surprised she hasn’t come closer before tbh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 Rayner would be a disaster. She would do far worse than starmer in my opinion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Rayner would be a disaster Why? (If your answer is "because people won't vote for a working class northern woman", we should think about why that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Mick is bang on here - Starmer needs to start standing for something - and he should really be standing for working people, for the Labour movement. Starmer might want to note the popularity of Mick Lynch - it's completely based on his ability to articulate values he believes in. He didn’t answer the question either. The question was “should nurses and other public sector workers receive pay rises to match inflation”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted July 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, blandy said: He didn’t answer the question either. The question was “should nurses and other public sector workers receive pay rises to match inflation”? It's not his job to comment on other unions members pay deals and he's dodged the question well.If he did answer it the press would pull him apart as well as the Union for NHS workers. Hes clear and concise and his message is simple and easy to understand, the press have continued to try find an angle to attack him at any opportunity but they have failed , the Tories are running scared of him and his message because they can't argue against it inflation is not rising because of high wages for the lower paid, the rich have never been richer and the poor have never been poorer. Starmer is dormant , hes hoping to get elected by voters going against the Tory's. It's probably a tactical move from his team but they do not seem to be judging the crisis that's starting to unfold. He needs to say what he stands for and stick to it, not say one thing and do another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, tinker said: It's not his job to comment on other unions members pay deals and he's dodged the question well. If he did answer it the press would pull him apart as well as the Union for NHS workers. It's just the point I'm making that he dodged a question, yet criticised Starmer for doing the same thing. You're right it's not his job to talk about other pay deals or Unions, nor is it, though, his job to talk about Starmer, a member (and leader) of another political party to his. RMT is not affiliated to Labour. I'm not having a go at him, he's doing well, I agree, at communicating his members complaints and their cause etc. When he strays off into more overtly political subjects, while I might agree with him about overthrowing the government and stuff and how the baby eaters are awful, it's kind of counter-productive with the public - who are pretty sympathetic to the narrower cause of fair pay and cost of living stuff. It's also a bit of a comment on the media - they started off (ludicrously) trying to "trip him up" with their stereotypes of rioting picketers and marxism and their ingrained establishment bias and now have learnt that getting handed their arses every time is not a good look, so now they're kind of letting him get away with stuff that they shouldn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I found the announcement on removing charity status from private schools a big positive - all Starmer now need to do is to announce something as clear about the wave of strikes that are coming, which shows where he stands on the issue. Not getting involved is not an option - the strikes are going to go on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2022 I think Mick is a symptom of people searching for something that looks and sounds like a leader of the Labour party and reflects the things they want. When you consider the way that strikes are reported in our press, there's an enormous amount of support for the railway workers, the post office workers and the BT workers that are striking - no one likes the inconvenience, but people completely understand the desire to get a fair deal off the corporate vampires rewarding execs and shareholders with record profits while people struggle. People are angry. Starmer hasn't give a single solitary indication that he's even morally, let alone politically on the people's side of that argument, and I think people are desperately looking for someone that is. People are looking for a politics that reflects their anger. Mick is answering questions he shouldn't because there's a void that should be filled by Starmer, he's answering questions because people are looking for Labour. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) We should nationalise energy Edited July 28, 2022 by Jareth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I think Mick is a symptom of people searching for something that looks and sounds like a leader of the Labour party and reflects the things they want. Yeah, some people are doing that. He's another one though who would be an awful-ish leader of the Labour party - he doesn't even support Labour. He's good on one issue. And one issue only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: We should nationalise energy Yup. There are some objections about scaring off investment, etc, but this is what private industry investment gets us, being bent over and fuelling the wealth transfer from bottom to top. The average consumer is expected to pay an extra £2000+ per year within the next few months, and they're absolutely raking it in. Loads of smaller suppliers went under, who didn't have the funding to get through the pandemic, but it doesn't justify this. People wanted to "take back control"? Start here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, blandy said: Yeah, some people are doing that. He's another one though who would be an awful-ish leader of the Labour party - he doesn't even support Labour. He's good on one issue. And one issue only. He'd be a terrible party leader - but at the moment he looks and sounds more like a leader of the Labour party than the one we've got. He's good on one issue, but it's an issue that the Labour party should be good on and it's also pretty much the biggest issue in our society - if you'll excuse the dig, that puts him one issue up on the bloke in charge. If it wasn't for the Starmer void - Mick wouldn't exist in the public eye. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts