The Tim Sherwood Thread

[dont_do_it_doug.]

The football I cry out for is winning football when we're in the position we're in.

I'd have rather won tonight's game 1-0 with no shots on target and an own goal that went in off Rob Green's arse than only get a point.

We can worry about being entertaining when we're not shit.

Absolutely. But I think you'd have to be extremely critical to not see big positives in the performance last night if not the result.

Sometimes you have to look at the players, you have to take into account that no matter what a manager does once those lads cross the line they are their own bosses. Richardson was eaten alive by Philips, which is a shame of course but we did not have a lot of options. Clark or Baker perhaps, or the equally snail-like Lowton would have also had a mare against a player in such fine form. Hutton or Aly on the other hand...

This is football. You win some, you lose some, you draw some. In any event, score goals you have a chance and this team has goals in them. That is what he has bought to the table.

Now all we can really do is watch it unfold.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Also - whether it is what we want or not, I WAS entertained last night.

[VillakevBromsgrove]

Think the tv companies may now regret dropping this game, probably one of the most exciting I have seen for a while, even when we went 2-3 you could feel we would get another 1 or even 2.

[Stevo985]

My point is that we're having a go.

 

Wanting to beat QPR 1-0 does not make you a member of an exclusive club.

 

We were down to our bear bones, with several key players missing. The game turned out to be high scoring. Just as nobody would have complained at 1-0, nobody would have complained at 4-3.

 

What are you moaning at? We've appointed a young, passionate, hungry manager, he's turned things around playing wise and taken us past the craving for boring 1-0 wins-We've had 4 years of that. Did you post during the last 4 years applauding this approach?

 

What is your point? to return to attempts to sneak 1-0's?

I wasn't moaning.

 

You seem to be desperate to turn this into a debate over whether the football is better now or whether it was better under Lambert. I don't care about that.

 

My point was a disagreement with your statement of "The football is everything that fans have been crying out for".

 

I don't care about the football we play as long as we win.

 

That was my point. Would I prefer the way we play now to the way we played under Lambert (towards the end)? Of course I would.

If the choice was to go down the way were going down under Lambert or go down playing the football we're playing now then I'd choose the way we play now. At least we're being entertained.

 

But that wasn't what I was trying to argue. My point was merely that to be entertained matters for nothing if you don't win football matches, and I'd sacrifice the way we're playing for three boring 1-0 victories in a heartbeat.

[Stevo985]

 

 

the original point I was questioning was that a poster suggested we have gone backwards under Sherwood

 

That wasn't the discussion we were having but whatever. I don't disagree that Sherwood has improved us.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

 

The football I cry out for is winning football when we're in the position we're in.

I'd have rather won tonight's game 1-0 with no shots on target and an own goal that went in off Rob Green's arse than only get a point.

We can worry about being entertaining when we're not shit.

Absolutely. But I think you'd have to be extremely critical to not see big positives in the performance last night if not the result.

 

There are many positives to take from yesterday. I never said otherwise.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

The football I cry out for is winning football when we're in the position we're in.

I'd have rather won tonight's game 1-0 with no shots on target and an own goal that went in off Rob Green's arse than only get a point.

We can worry about being entertaining when we're not shit.

Absolutely. But I think you'd have to be extremely critical to not see big positives in the performance last night if not the result.

There are many positives to take from yesterday. I never said otherwise.

I know you didn't. Just having a chat.

You seem quite argumentative today.

[Stevo985]

Not at all. Your post read as if I was being critical about last night's game. just nipping it in the bud.

[markavfc40]

New manager bounce is overstated,

 

Possibly it is. We have had a slight bounce under Sherwood in terms of points taken per game but for me a big bounce in terms of performances.

He faced a mammoth task in all fairness to him. He has though quickly turned us from being a side that played on the back foot whose first thought was to go backwards or sideways to one that is now very forward thinking and the players first thought now is to go forward and attack.

I think this dramatic change in how we play may in part be responsible for us seemingly having players getting injured in training. I'd imagine this getting the players to make such a dramatic change in how we play has had to be implemented in very short time on the training ground and this in addition to the players wanting to impress the new manager has resulted in us training at an intensity not really at a level you'd want at the back end of a grueling season.

It is easy to point at other managers who have gone into other clubs and say they have done better and I see Pardew and Pulis are by some being used in this way. Every situation is different though. They went into their respective clubs with more games remaining than Sherwood did, that in itself takes away a little pressure. They also didn't join clubs who had absolutely diabolical records in terms of creating and scoring goals meaning a complete about turn was required in terms of style of play and mindset. They also went in to much smaller clubs where the pressure isn't so intense from supporters and the fear of relegation for such a big club is so great.

I still maintain there are far more experienced managers that wouldn't have had the balls to touch Aston Villa with a barge pole with just 13 games remaining and serving up the negative crap we had week in week out looking absolutely clueless in doing so. Sherwood did have the bollocks to do so and he has, and is, facing the challenge head on being brave in his selections and setting the team out to win games. We need a couple more of those but with Sherwoods positive approach we now at least have a more than fair chance of getting them something which looked highly unlikely under his predecessor.

Edited April 8, 2015 by markavfc40

[DCJonah]

As a matter of interest, does anyone on here think that there is a manager who would have come in and got a bottom 3 side into mid table within half a dozen games?

What did people expect when Sherwood was appointed?

I asked a similar question.

After that hull game if someone had said Lambert will be sacked and in the next 9 games you'll win 4 scoring 13 goals and getting to the fa cup semi final, I'd imagine everyone would have been pretty happy with that.

Edited April 8, 2015 by DCJonah

[Dodgyknees]

Right now I'd take wins over entertainment. If we were safe I'd have loved last night.

[briny_ear]

I loved last night anyway because I'm pretty sure that if QPR had come to Villa Park in that frame of mind against a Lambert side, heads would have dropped and we would have gone down to defeat. We now have some fight and got a point which, as Ramsey acknowledged, was better for us than for QPR.

[Stevo985]

I loved last night anyway because I'm pretty sure that if QPR had come to Villa Park in that frame of mind against a Lambert side

The Lambert side around the time he got sacked? Agreed we'd have probably lost last night.

 

But not any lambert side. We had pretty much exactly the same fixture against them 2 seasons back remember?

Edited April 8, 2015 by Stevo985

[useless]

I'd have expected us to get more than one point from Stoke, Swansea, QPR and Newcastle, all we've done since Sherwood came in is beat a Sunderland team who weren't playing for their manager and WBA. Plus comparisons to Lambert don't really matter if it's not good enough then it's not good enough, regardless if it's slightly better than the end of Lambert's reign.

[Mantis]

It's annoying that we seem to have kept this pathetic habit of conceding so early in games. I guess now though we have the fight to come back at least.

 

I'd have expected us to get more than one point from Stoke, Swansea, QPR and Newcastle, all we've done since Sherwood came in is beat a Sunderland team who weren't playing for their manager and WBA. Plus comparisons to Lambert don't really matter if it's not good enough then it's not good enough, regardless if it's slightly better than the end of Lambert's reign.

Things are actually quite a bit better than at the end of Lambert's reign (which just goes to show how bad things got) and yes it does matter because Sherwood is his replacement.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Mantis

[Mammoth10]

I loved last night anyway because I'm pretty sure that if QPR had come to Villa Park in that frame of mind against a Lambert side

The Lambert side around the time he got sacked? Agreed we'd have probably lost last night.

 

But not any lambert side. We had pretty much exactly the same fixture against them 2 seasons back remember?

Which also coincided with what was probably Lamberts best spell at the club, one where he set us up to have a go and try and win games, could argue that post that spell it all went a bit tits up!

[Stevo985]

 

 

I loved last night anyway because I'm pretty sure that if QPR had come to Villa Park in that frame of mind against a Lambert side

The Lambert side around the time he got sacked? Agreed we'd have probably lost last night.

 

But not any lambert side. We had pretty much exactly the same fixture against them 2 seasons back remember?

Which also coincided with what was probably Lamberts best spell at the club, one where he set us up to have a go and try and win games, could argue that post that spell it all went a bit tits up!

 

Agreed.

 

I just kept thinking last night how similar the game was to that game, in terms of how it was played and also the scenario and importance of the fixture.

 

For a while I was thinking the score was going to be the same too, but Austin had to spoil things!

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Not at all. Your post read as if I was being critical about last night's game. just nipping it in the bud.

Fair enough.

I will add, only because I want to see if you agree, that being entertained generally leads to goals and ultimately results. I think last night was a bit of an anomaly, we were playing two attacking midfielder at full back. We scored 3 goals and could (should?) have had more.

I believe Sherwood was bang in when he said we don't have the players to play for 1-0 victories. That was Lambert's biggest mistake, putting the shackles on. The only chance we have is to go for it, every time. Of course you could say that he would say that as it hides his own tactical deficiencies, or naivety (buzz word), but I agree with him regardless.

[AntrimBlack]

It seems obvious to me that what we have at this club is a smattering of talented players and an awful lot of below average for the Premier League players.

I am looking at teams who are drawing with or beating us and thinking, what a mediocre, uninspiring bunch of players they have.

I wonder if Sherwood is beginning to realise the enormity of the task facing him with our players.

[Neil]

 

The football I cry out for is winning football when we're in the position we're in.

I'd have rather won tonight's game 1-0 with no shots on target and an own goal that went in off Rob Green's arse than only get a point.

We can worry about being entertaining when we're not shit.

Absolutely. But I think you'd have to be extremely critical to not see big positives in the performance last night if not the result.

Sometimes you have to look at the players, you have to take into account that no matter what a manager does once those lads cross the line they are their own bosses. Richardson was eaten alive by Philips, which is a shame of course but we did not have a lot of options. Clark or Baker perhaps, or the equally snail-like Lowton would have also had a mare against a player in such fine form. Hutton or Aly on the other hand...

This is football. You win some, you lose some, you draw some. In any event, score goals you have a chance and this team has goals in them. That is what he has bought to the table.

Now all we can really do is watch it unfold.

 

 

I definitely share your optimism, I've been liking what I've been seeing...coming from someone who was a little dumbfounded at the time of appointment.

I thought last night was a "must win" game, win stay up...lose go down.  I wasn't really thinking of a draw, and certainly not a 6 goal draw...and I won't deny I'm very worried that a draw is not enough.

But yesterdays game was something else for me, for large parts I thought there was only one winner in that game.  When we were 2-1, I thought we looked unassailable and were good for going on for more...in the end I totally agree with our manager, given the play that was a disappointing result.  But I tell you what, that just shows how far we have come from Lambert!  For once I felt we deserved the win, thoroughly, and overall we were much the better team.  The only time our keeper was brought into action was when they were scoring, that was unfortunate but every chance they had they took...one of them.

When I figured this was a must win game, I was thinking in the back of my mind that we need the 6 goal cushion to get us through the next 2 games.  That performance, if we can build on it, is good for some shock extra points from the likes of city and spuds.

We still have our 3 point gap, obviously games in hand to take into account...but a couple of points from teams who might well be on the beach already and we're looking good for staying up.  And for once, I feel like taking points off said teams is within our grasp...I'm not entirely condemned to failure as with lambert.