The ISIS threat to Europe

[TrentVilla]

9 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

True enough , but I'm not sure the Mail has the influence people here seem to think it has ? 1.5 m a day isn't it ? If it wasn't for Villatalk posters linking to its articles I'd hardly be aware of a single hate filled front page it published

That isn't really the full picture though.

The most recent figures I could find from last year puts their readership at 1.6m so you are right on that front especially given the year on year decline in readerships across most titles. As a proportion of the population it's tiny.

But as a proportion of those reading daily papers it is large. They have 1.6m of the 7m total of daily papers being sold. The Mirror for example has half that and it's readership is declining far quicker than that of the Mail. 

In fact both the Mail and Sunday Mail seriously put performed their rivals and is second only to The Sun on Sunday.

But in all honesty these days talking about readerships and circulation figures is old hat. It's all about online, not just in terms of website visitors but almost more importantly second viewing.

Second viewing in the paper trade would once have been picking up someone's disguarded daily on the train. These days it's about stories being shared, tweeted and reposted and exposure to readerships who otherwise would be exposed to them. It's all about those clicks as the smart people in the industry diversify from print to online advertising. Which is why the paid access model of some online papers is wrong but that's another topic.

The Mail online is a behemoth, sure it's figures are inflated by non U.K. traffic particularly from the U.S which it's targetted heavily but it's still significant.

In Dec 2014 they reported unique monthly visitor numbers of 200 million. That is staggering. 

As you said yourself you are only aware of their front pages because they are shared on here. I'd never read the Mail but I'm exposed to it daily, it's poison reaches my by osmosis from platforms such as this or social media and the fact everyone in my office reads it daily. Even some who should take very personal exception to some of the views it spews out.

I think the reaction to and vilification of the Hail owes less to its Black Shirt history and more to the fact it's now reaching a different audience.

It no longer just lands on the doormat of Mr and Mrs Jones from Stevenage, who aren't racist because they had a black postman onc, but think anyone who can't trace their blood line back to 6 generations of being white British should probably go back where they came from.

It is reaching everyone to one extent or another who frequents the tinterweb, spreading its hate, fear and loathing. In that context despite its small traditional readership it's hardly surprising people think it has a lot of influence and one which is actually increasing.

 

 

[peterms]

There's also the point that this and other papers set the agenda for the BBC, which seems to feel some sort of obligation to follow the news priorities covered by the press.  That's a failing of the BBC, but it does give the press influence beyond their own scribblings.

[TrentVilla]

Just now, peterms said:

There's also the point that this and other papers set the agenda for the BBC, which seems to feel some sort of obligation to follow the news priorities covered by the press.  That's a failing of the BBC, but it does give the press influence beyond their own scribblings.

That's an excellent point and one I'd not really considered. Same applies to various talking head shows on TV and radio.

[Awol]

Brussels and Paris terror suspect 'was given £3000 in UK Park.

A suspect in the Paris and Brussels terror attacks was handed £3000 during secret meeting in Birmingham months before the killings, a jury has heard.

Seems the money was in part benefit payments made to a UK national who had already gone to join ISIS in Syria. The Drop was made in Small Heath Park to the infamous "man in the hat" - from CCTV fame after the Brussels attack. 

Good to see Birmingham remains premier league in at least one area of life. 

[Brumerican]

37 minutes ago, Awol said:

Brussels and Paris terror suspect 'was given £3000 in UK Park.

 

 

Seems the money was in part benefit payments made to a UK national who had already gone to join ISIS in Syria. The Drop was made in Small Heath Park to the infamous "man in the hat" - from CCTV fame after the Brussels attack. 

Good to see Birmingham remains premier league in at least one area of life. 

Remember my deportation yarn from the US political  thread ?

I recall vividly the reaction of the interrogation officers when I told them I was from Birmingham .  They immediately looked at each other with concern and the senior officer shot out of the door .  He returned with another 2 guys in suits who asked me about my religion , my political beliefs and the purpose of a holiday to Egypt a few years previously . 

I think they were more disgusted that I was an atheist rather than a fundy.

 

But yeah , Brum is rife with this shit and both sides of the pond are well aware of it. 

[TrentVilla]

Well it is a no go zone remember!

[Awol]

40 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

Remember my deportation yarn from the US political  thread ?

I recall vividly the reaction of the interrogation officers when I told them I was from Birmingham .  They immediately looked at each other with concern and the senior officer shot out of the door .  He returned with another 2 guys in suits who asked me about my religion , my political beliefs and the purpose of a holiday to Egypt a few years previously . 

I think they were more disgusted that I was an atheist rather than a fundy.

 

But yeah , Brum is rife with this shit and both sides of the pond are well aware of it. 

I can well believe it. Me and the missus occasionally drink with some USG types we know pretty well (they've got the only bar on town open during Ramadan). When asked one evening why we'd moved from Birmingham to the Middle East she replies dead pan, "fewer terrorists". They nodded sagely.

Apparently Brum is rated by salafists as the only place in Europe where you can live a truly Islamic life. 

[OutByEaster?]

Brum has a very high number of people who were arrested or removed on suspicion of terrorism in comparison to most Western cities. Somewhere out there there are CIA agents who as part of their job eat three or four times a week on Ladypool Road. War is hell.

 

[Chindie]

I wonder where Bradford and Leicester would sit on the watch lists of the CIA.

[StefanAVFC]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

I can well believe it. Me and the missus occasionally drink with some USG types we know pretty well (they've got the only bar on town open during Ramadan). When asked one evening why we'd moved from Birmingham to the Middle East she replies dead pan, "fewer terrorists". They nodded sagely.

When was the last Muslim terrorist attack in Birmingham?

[Awol]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

When was the last Muslim terrorist attack in Birmingham?

You don't shit where you eat.

 

EDIT: Have a quick google of 'terror plot foiled Birmingham'. It'll take you a while to wade through the links but as OBE said they are picking people up (and charging them) regularly.

The fella who ran the Paris attacks had pictures of the Bull Ring on his phone and despite the above being a general rule of thumb, if you're inclined to look their have been several foiled plots that were actually targeting the city in recent years.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Awol

[TrentVilla]

 

So a huge cache of emails has emerged linking the son in law of the Turkish despot directly to ISIS oil. Who would have predicted that....

[villakram]

2 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

 

So a huge cache of emails has emerged linking the son in law of the Turkish despot directly to ISIS oil. Who would have predicted that....

When the Russians first deployed to Syria, that's pretty much the first thing they said along with providing photo evidence of the convoys of oil trucks, which they then bombed to bits, cutting off the ISIS money flow. What was the result? An abrupt end to the expansion of ISIS. 

The Americans/Brits/French etc., all knew this too and... didn't do a damn thing even though Messrs Obama/Cameron/Holland all wailed like crazy over those damn tuuuurrrooooists and the evil Russian propaganda. Shameful.

 

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

When the Russians first deployed to Syria, that's pretty much the first thing they said along with providing photo evidence of the convoys of oil trucks, which they then bombed to bits, cutting off the ISIS money flow. What was the result? An abrupt end to the expansion of ISIS. 

The Americans/Brits/French etc., all knew this too and... didn't do a damn thing even though Messrs Obama/Cameron/Holland all wailed like crazy over those damn tuuuurrrooooists and the evil Russian propaganda. Shameful.

 

Yep agreed and things have been coming to a head between Russia and Turkey for a while, so Russia got a 2 4 1 when they started supporting Syria.

Russia's portrayal in Western media is extremely one sided and through the prism of our foreign policy objectives. Don't get me wrong some of Russia's actions are very questionable but then so are those of the main powers of the West.

As for Turkey, it's half way down a slippery slope!

[Awol]

14 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

As for Turkey, it's half way down a slippery slope!

Yep, but if you were happy when it looked like Sultan Erdogan was going to be removed and secular control restored in Turkey then you are a terrible person.

Instead Turkey has invaded Syria, Iraq and is waging a conflict against its own Kurdish population, while threatening the EU with a fresh avalanche of refugees... Not to mention Kobane and Turkish support/collusion with ISIS.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

17 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

As for Turkey, it's half way down a slippery slope!

Now that's an understatement. 

[TrentVilla]

48 minutes ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

Now that's an understatement. 

Nah, it's a big slope

[TrentVilla]

3 hours ago, Awol said:

Yep, but if you were happy when it looked like Sultan Erdogan was going to be removed and secular control restored in Turkey then you are a terrible person.

Instead Turkey has invaded Syria, Iraq and is waging a conflict against its own Kurdish population, while threatening the EU with a fresh avalanche of refugees... Not to mention Kobane and Turkish support/collusion with ISIS.

Quite. 

Turkey is a rogue state right on the door step of the EU but that's all a bit awkward so best not to mention that and keep pointing the finger at the Russian's who are a more palatable issue. I mean if the EU recognised there was an issue with Turkey they might actually have to do something.

The Islamic State might be close to its death rattle (as a land holding entity) but the rekindling of the Ottomon empire is only just beginning. What comes post ISIS in the former Iraq and lost Syrian territories is going to be even worse.

[OutByEaster?]

8 hours ago, Awol said:

Instead Turkey has invaded Syria, Iraq and is waging a conflict against its own population, while threatening the EU with a fresh avalanche of refugees.

In fairness so have we.

 

[villakram]

8 hours ago, Awol said:

Yep, but if you were happy when it looked like Sultan Erdogan was going to be removed and secular control restored in Turkey then you are a terrible person.

Instead Turkey has invaded Syria, Iraq and is waging a conflict against its own Kurdish population, while threatening the EU with a fresh avalanche of refugees... Not to mention Kobane and Turkish support/collusion with ISIS.

Where pray tell are these poor souls going to come from. Syria is empty. Erdogan has blown his load and should simply be laughed off by the EU... or more sensibly they should talk with Russia/China and develop formal relationships with the SCO and other relevant euroasian political bodies, thereby getting Turkey w/o having to integrate them into the EU.