The ISIS threat to Europe

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

So manslaughter and murder are the same thing to you?

Just no. To the point it's not even worth arguing about. 

The point about "1 persons collateral damage is another persons terrorist attack." is another one about context. It's absolutely true that if you're a Palestinian, or a Yemeni or a Syrian or an Afghan and a bomb drops from the sky and kills innocent people in a hospital, or at a wedding, or a school, or in the street that's (to them) no different, and just as awful as a Jihadi suicide bombing in [wherever].

Collateral damage is an awful phrase which should not be used. Innocent Civilian casualties or deaths is what it means. The maiming and the ending and ruining of lives. It's all the same in the effect it has on human beings trying to go about peaceful life.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

13 minutes ago, blandy said:

The point about "1 persons collateral damage is another persons terrorist attack." is another one about context.

It's not. They literally have different meanings. 

I never once said accidental death wasn't awful. Perhaps somebody who has lost a loved one to an American bomb intended for ISIS might call that terrorism, but they'd be wrong too. No matter how horrific the whole thing is. 

[Awol]

This French initiative is an interesting approach and probably unworkable.

Not all of the perpetrators of these attacks die, those who are captured will then face trial. Do the media &/or the State then try to conceal identities throughout the judicial process? What about post sentencing? Is that adhering to the principals of an open society and equality before the law?

I don't know enough about the law in general to answer those questions, but the idea strikes me as being 1) half arsed, and 2)  a weak, trending pathetic response - similar to the UK Gov's "we must call them Daesh 'cos they don't like" approach.

 Will also be interesting to see how it is viewed by the French populace (who will be exposed to the true identities anyway through foreign outlets or social media) given their evident lack of trust and belief in the competence of their authorities.

The types who would overtly or even secretly admire these people will still find martydom videos and Jihadi propaganda about them (which they will likely seek out anyway) at the click of a mouse.

So in practice what does it really achieve? In fact f*** it, it's absurd. 

 

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

In fact f*** it, it's absurd.

Ah...

[snowychap]

On 24/05/2016 at 19:04, snowychap said:

I see the French rolled over their state of emergency again last week.

And Valls is saying that they plan to do so again:

Quote

France's state of emergency imposed after last year's terror attacks in Paris is likely to be extended, Prime Minister Manuel Valls has told the BBC.

He said the measures were needed to "protect our democracy".

...

On Saturday, in an interview with the BBC's Hardtalk programme, Mr Valls said the state of emergency would be extended because there was a risk of "attacks of the kind we saw in Nice".

...

2017 elections

Mr Valls said the country must remain safe during the presidential and parliamentary election campaigns which are scheduled to take place in France between April and June next year.

...more on link

 

[Awol]

On 29/07/2016 at 00:17, snowychap said:

Ah...

Very good - Radio 4 level banter! 

[TrentVilla]

 

Just seen a video of a suicide vechicle near Raqqa being destroyed by a French anti tank weapon with very clear French voices in the audio.

Thoughts AWOL? Foreign Legion, special forces on the ground with the Kurdish troops? Holiday makers who got a bit lost?

[Rugeley Villa]

Loads of apartments and mosques raided in Germany. a closer eye on mosques is needed all over Europe and beyond imo.

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Loads of apartments and mosques raided in Germany. a closer eye on mosques is needed all over Europe and beyond imo.

Only if you want to fan the flames of extremism and increase social divides, such action only breads extremism.

Individuals and groups need to be the focus not the religion as a whole.

[Rugeley Villa]

Just now, TrentVilla said:

Only if you want to fan the flames of extremism and increase social divides, such action only breads extremism.

Individuals and groups need to be the focus not the religion as a whole.

There is a hell of a lot of extremism being preached in mosques. How do you go about trying to stamp it out? It's a very touchy situation which if not done right could backfire, I know. I think the problem is too deep rooted now and I honestly have no idea how it will change.

[TrentVilla]

6 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

There is a hell of a lot of extremism being preached in mosques. How do you go about trying to stamp it out? It's a very touchy situation which if not done right could backfire, I know. I think the problem is too deep rooted now and I honestly have no idea how it will change.

There is far more on the internet.

The solution is multifacited and will take a generation if not longer but will need to come from the media stopping fuelling hate, the Government from their actions both home and abroad and from the Muslim community itself.

If I had the answer I'd be an extremely wealthy man but I do know focussing security efforts on mosques across Europe would be a spectacularly bad move.

[Chindie]

Putting an entire people further under suspicion by further intruding on some of their most revered places and practices is totally not going to get more people's backs up and make a few pissed off people even more pissed off.

[Rugeley Villa]

14 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

There is far more on the internet.

The solution is multifacited and will take a generation if not longer but will need to come from the media stopping fuelling hate, the Government from their actions both home and abroad and from the Muslim community itself.

If I had the answer I'd be an extremely wealthy man but I do know focussing security efforts on mosques across Europe would be a spectacularly bad move.

The internet really is a goldmine for the jihadists and for anyone in particular really. Isis have done a grand job in using the Internet. Well I suppose I'd better not run for prime minister then 

[Awol]

When some Mosques get searched or raided it's on the basis of intelligence, not for shits and giggles or 'on the off chance' the authorities might find someone a bit dodgy.

If the buildings weren't used for radical related activities there would be no reason for the authorities to go into them, but it happens in some Mosques because some people use them for those purposes some of the time. 

[Chindie]

3 minutes ago, Awol said:

When some Mosques get searched or raided it's on the basis of intelligence, not for shits and giggles or 'on the off chance' the authorities might find someone a bit dodgy.

If the buildings weren't used for radical related activities there would be no reason for the authorities to go into them, but it happens in some Mosques because some people use them for those purposes some of the time. 

I don't have a problem with mosques being raided in the back of credible intelligence.

Rugely appeared to be suggesting more of the shits and giggles take, that they're all inherently a risk and need watching closer.

[villakram]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Only if you want to fan the flames of extremism and increase social divides, such action only breads extremism.

Individuals and groups need to be the focus not the religion as a whole.

We're all being actively monitored, all of the time (Hi NSA!). Just don't make friends with idiots/ideas wanting to blow up people/things.

Edited November 15, 2016 by villakram
ya... I know, bloody idealism!

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, villakram said:

We're all being actively monitored, all of the time (Hi NSA!). Just don't make friends with idiots/ideas wanting to blow up people/things.

For the benefit of those reading from GCHQ I do not know this person (watch out he could be Muslim!) and have no idea what he is on about talking about blowing things up.

[Chindie]

Metaphorically blowing up your perception. Maaaaan.

[Rugeley Villa]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

I don't have a problem with mosques being raided in the back of credible intelligence.

Rugely appeared to be suggesting more of the shits and giggles take, that they're all inherently a risk and need watching closer.

No not at all. Maybe I should of worded it better. Like I said it's a very sensitive  situation.

[Chindie]

Well I don't know why you've said the mosques need watching closer then. They're already monitoring everything, monitoring communications, identifying links between people and their activities, etc etc etc. They don't have to keep 'a closer eye' on mosques. They're watching for signs of the problem in the people likely to do it.