Amo69 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Any new incoming manager will have a whole load of shit to clear out. Christ it will be like a jumble sale ! That's true. He will have more shit to clear out then Lambert did because he has cleared out shit with shit and added even more shit. So now either Lambert clears out his shit and bring more shit in or we let another manager clear out Lamberts shit and the shit left from before him while bringing in his own shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Yeah because no other club in the league has ever managed any kind of success with a limited budget have they. Is it a factor in our situation, yes of course. Is it a complete exoneration of Lambert's failings, not at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I think it's a risk worth taking because under Lambert we will eventually go down. For what Lerner wants he needs Pulis really. Or maybe another manager would just make things worse? The last thing we need is more transition. No, that isn't my only argument actually. That's the only reason you gave when explaining why he should keep his job if he manages to even do worse than McLeish though. If you had other arguments, why not list them as well? I already have done. We've broken a club record for home games lost. I don't think our concern should be another manager might do worse. No one worried about that with McLeish. No one said don't replace heskey as a new striker could do worse. The defence of lambert gets weaker and weaker This is what I mean about the obsession with records. Surely the most pressing matter is that we've only got 34 points from 32 games? McLeish and Lambert are two completely different managers in two different situations but I can't be arsed to go over this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) I've never been so disappointed in a manager. O'Neill was overrated, Houllier was a has-been and McLiesh was just shit and we all knew it. I had high hopes for this bloke and barring a miraculous turnaround he's fallen well short of my expectations. Edited April 5, 2014 by Shaw_nuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Lambert just do one and get out of the club now. A mumbling moron who continues to embarrass the club and it's fans . The desperate attempts of a few on here to defend him are head shaking. Very mature. Who would you replace Lambert with? some may think you are trolling gentleman but I will give you the benefit of doubt. Shame that you resort to possibly the weakest of arguments to try and cause problems though. The who would you replace him with is weaker than a lambert team talk. Your defence of lambert has no real evidence of clear convincing argument as far as I can see. Why not try and convince the vast majority who are now calling for his head why they are wrong? I look forward to a sensible answer back .... I am not trolling boy, I am on this forum through the good and the bad at the club. Unlike some posters, who conveniently disappear when our young team are thumping the opposition 4-1 and rocking the giants of English football. Where were you after Norwich? Where were you after Chelsea? I assume you are secretly delighted with Fulham's victory against an injury-ravished side? It would not shock me at all given your maturity. My response to your post was genuine and blunt, I do not need to resort to the low level of personal abuse to defend a certain position. It was a fair question, and I do think somebody who has a strong case for sacking Lambert would be able to answer it. My defence of Lambert has been stated many times over, it does not need to be repeated for the sake of my sanity and others. To put it simply, I believe in managerial continuity given the conditions at our club, I think sacking Lambert will lead to more turmoil and frustration. Additionally, I still believe Paul Lambert has a lot to offer the club. It is not my job to convince anybody. You are free to think and behaviour as you wish but I implore you to keep it respectful, you are representing my club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 In Lambert's defence, the conditions that he has to work in and the budget he operates under are appalling. Nearly 2 years in and we still haven't arranged to have an interpreter to assist him in post match interviews. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I reckon Lambert will be here for as long as Randy is here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villianusa Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) My point is he isn't capable of raising our weaker players (he purchased) against stronger opposition like other managers can. Those managers inspire weaker players to very good performances, but Lambert is incapable of doing it. How isn't he? Many of our poorer players have raised their game against teams like City, Chelsea and Arsenal. The problem has always been our performances against the lesser sides. Yes we have won those games, but would you say we have deserved to win those games, and we didn't get a big slice of luck? I don't think many of our loses have been to back luck, but bad performances from manager and team. Certainly not all of them. We definitely deserved to beat Chelsea for example. You could also ask the same question about our defeats to lower league opposition. Perhaps there was luck involved there as well? I watched those games and no I didn't see much luck, but teams who deserved to beat us. Ah so when we win we're "lucky" but when we lose we deserve it? That's just double standards. No, not at all. Outplayed by the majority of the teams, and certainly outclassed when it came to creating chances. Look back at those games against lower division teams and see how many chances we had compared to them. Now that ridiculous! Attempts on target Millwall 6 Aston Villa 3 Attempts off target Millwall 6 Aston Villa 1 Villa Sheffield United Shots 9 8 On target 2 5 Attempts on target Bradford 12 Aston Villa 13 Attempts off target Bradford 8 Aston Villa 5 Need I go on? I'll give you we did make a few more chances than Bradford at home, and go on to win a game. Edited April 5, 2014 by villianusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) No, not at all. Outplayed by the majority of the teams, and certainly outclassed when it came to creating chances. Look back at those games against lower division teams and see how many chances we had compared to them. Now that ridiculous! Attempts on target Millwall 6 Aston Villa 3 Attempts off target Millwall 6 Aston Villa 1 Villa Sheffield United Shots 9 8 On target 2 5 Attempts on target Bradford 12 Aston Villa 13 Attempts off target Bradford 8 Aston Villa 5 Need I go on? I'll give you we did make a few more chances than Bradford at home, and go on to win a game. Stats don't tell the full picture. That isn't me saying we were unlucky against Bradford and Millwall by the way, just pointing that out. But still, this insistence that we're lucky when we win and just shit when we lose is biased and clearly serves to back up already existing agendas. Edited April 5, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I don't know what's worse. Starting off good and getting shit like McLeish or just being consistently shit? Seeing Carew today was heart breaking. Wasn't that long ago we had a good team with good players to watch. Except we're not consistently shit - if we were we would've been down ages ago. I think your wrong Mantis. We HAVE been consistantly shit. And you can keep going on about bad luck etc, but the fact remains, we have also had a fair share of good fortune throughout the season, Man City, Southampton, I could go on........ Bottom line is Lambert didn't have massive funds however hasn't done enough with what he has been given and should go. The football we play is too one dimensional with no real shape and none of the players appear to be progressing individually or collectively either.Tactically he has been outthought on a regular basis by other managers, or not reacted quick enough- Something I and friends have witnessed on many occasions this season. If I am completely honest what concerns me most at the moment is this time last year the team started to turn the corner and pull together some good results and performances to escape from the drop zone. This season we are turning the corner in the opposite direction whilst those around us are starting to fight. In the next couple of weeks we could be right in the mix and I don't know if we have the fight this year for the run in. Lambert needs to go at the end of the season, and anyone suggesting that even if we go down he should remain needs their head looking at. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Guys forget stats. We've all been watching football for long enough to see we are a terrible team when a few key players are out. Lambert knows a hell of a lot more about football than all of us put together and he has been trying to address this for newly two years. He is failing miserably. Is he just going go give up and walk away? Of course he isn't because he is earning ridiculous amounts of money to keep trying. Unless the owners act there is only one outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I already have done. Oh you mean: Style of football, signings, injuries, how the seasons panned out, the fact that this season isn't even over yet. Well I don't even know what you mean by the first two. Regarding injuries, it is something that happens. McLeish lost key players for the run-in and it wasn't an excuse for him. To me it just seems like your trump card that is the points by game progression which you have tirelessly used all season has gone bust and now instead of holding your hands up and admitting that no progression has been made under him, you have moved on to other arguments instead. Like I say, no consistancy at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Actually there were a fair few of us stating that we were being lucky around Xmas time and that if we carried on playing like that and the luck ran out then we'd sink like a stone. Lo and behold the luck evened itself out and hey presto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Lambert just do one and get out of the club now. A mumbling moron who continues to embarrass the club and it's fans . The desperate attempts of a few on here to defend him are head shaking.Very mature. Who would you replace Lambert with?some may think you are trolling gentleman but I will give you the benefit of doubt. Shame that you resort to possibly the weakest of arguments to try and cause problems though. The who would you replace him with is weaker than a lambert team talk. Your defence of lambert has no real evidence of clear convincing argument as far as I can see. Why not try and convince the vast majority who are now calling for his head why they are wrong? I look forward to a sensible answer back ....I am not trolling boy, I am on this forum through the good and the bad at the club. Unlike some posters, who conveniently disappear when our young team are thumping the opposition 4-1 and rocking the giants of English football. Where were you after Norwich? Where were you after Chelsea? I assume you are secretly delighted with Fulham's victory against an injury-ravished side? It would not shock me at all given your maturity. My response to your post was genuine and blunt, I do not need to resort to the low level of personal abuse to defend a certain position. It was a fair question, and I do think somebody who has a strong case for sacking Lambert would be able to answer it. My defence of Lambert has been stated many times over, it does not need to be repeated for the sake of my sanity and others. To put it simply, I believe in managerial continuity given the conditions at our club, I think sacking Lambert will lead to more turmoil and frustration. Additionally, I still believe Paul Lambert has a lot to offer the club. It is not my job to convince anybody. You are free to think and behaviour as you wish but I implore you to keep it respectful, you are representing my club. Ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Lambert just do one and get out of the club now. A mumbling moron who continues to embarrass the club and it's fans . The desperate attempts of a few on here to defend him are head shaking. Very mature. Who would you replace Lambert with? some may think you are trolling gentleman but I will give you the benefit of doubt. Shame that you resort to possibly the weakest of arguments to try and cause problems though. The who would you replace him with is weaker than a lambert team talk. Your defence of lambert has no real evidence of clear convincing argument as far as I can see. Why not try and convince the vast majority who are now calling for his head why they are wrong? I look forward to a sensible answer back .... I am not trolling boy, I am on this forum through the good and the bad at the club. Unlike some posters, who conveniently disappear when our young team are thumping the opposition 4-1 and rocking the giants of English football. Where were you after Norwich? Where were you after Chelsea? I assume you are secretly delighted with Fulham's victory against an injury-ravished side? It would not shock me at all given your maturity. My response to your post was genuine and blunt, I do not need to resort to the low level of personal abuse to defend a certain position. It was a fair question, and I do think somebody who has a strong case for sacking Lambert would be able to answer it. My defence of Lambert has been stated many times over, it does not need to be repeated for the sake of my sanity and others. To put it simply, I believe in managerial continuity given the conditions at our club, I think sacking Lambert will lead to more turmoil and frustration. Additionally, I still believe Paul Lambert has a lot to offer the club. It is not my job to convince anybody. You are free to think and behaviour as you wish but I implore you to keep it respectful, you are representing my club. Gentleman I enjoy reading your posts as they are considered and well written rather than knee jerk like so many others. I also suspect that you are around my age and have witnessed much better and much worse times than the current position. I would love Lambert to succeed and have defended him all season. I acknowledge that today we were without 5 players that would normally be in the starting eleven; but overall we haven't progressed since last season, at best we have stagnated or maybe even regressed. Change is needed to avoid another repeat scenario next season. The change I would prefer would be for Lerner to splash the cash but it's not going to happen is it? Let's hope he sells to someone that has both the desire and finances to drive us forward because I'd like to see what Lambert could do if he was allowed to spend money to add real quality to the squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villianusa Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 No, not at all. Outplayed by the majority of the teams, and certainly outclassed when it came to creating chances. Look back at those games against lower division teams and see how many chances we had compared to them. Now that ridiculous! Attempts on target Millwall 6 Aston Villa 3 Attempts off target Millwall 6 Aston Villa 1 Villa Sheffield United Shots 9 8 On target 2 5 Attempts on target Bradford 12 Aston Villa 13 Attempts off target Bradford 8 Aston Villa 5 Need I go on? I'll give you we did make a few more chances than Bradford at home, and go on to win a game. Stats don't tell the full picture. That isn't me saying we were unlucky against Bradford and Millwall by the way, just pointing that out. But still, this insistence that we're lucky when we win and just shit when we lose is biased and clearly serves to back up already existing agendas. Stats do show the whole picture when it comes to creating chances. Most games are won by the teams that make the most chances. Yes there are exceptions, but in reality those stats show how creative and attacking the team is. Throughout most of this season we have been well behind in those stats. Basically, Lambert can't get the player that he bought to perform to a level where we can outplay many of the teams in the league. We have a greater chance against teams higher than us because they expect to beat us. They push forward, and for the best part take us lightly and that's when we get some joy. Teams around us stick to the same game plan and beat us because they are better prepared. That is where Lambert has let us down. He is very low when it comes to tactics, inspiring players, and making subs. How could he put Bowery on today? When was the last time that guy scored at any level? Other managers would have been brave enough to throw the youngster on who is at least scoring goals, and knows where the net is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Lambert knows a hell of a lot more about football than all of us put together and he has been trying to address this for newly two years. He is failing miserably. Does he really? Really? He got a leg up in management because he was a former player. Most people involved in football, including managers, who appear on shows in which they claim to 'analyse' matches come across as not particularly knowledgeable or insightful. It'll never happen as there's obviously a huge amount of money at stake but I suspect if you took the average bloke off the street who is a football enthusiast and put him in charge of a midtable Premier League club with a modest budget, they wouldn't do much worse than most of the managers currently in the league. It's jobs for the boys, and even when they fail (repeatedly) they still get top jobs. This is of course going a bit off topic, the point I'm really making is I'm not convinced that Lambert is some sort of oracle with plans beyond the understanding of mere fans just because he's currently got the Villa gig. Edited April 5, 2014 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobisher Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 When he called him "boy", I lol'd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Lambert knows a hell of a lot more about football than all of us put together and he has been trying to address this for newly two years. He is failing miserably. Does he really? Really? He got a leg up in management because he was a former player. Most people involved in football, including managers, who appear on shows in which they claim to 'analyse' matches come across as not particularly knowledgeable or insightful. It'll never happen as there's obviously a huge amount of money at stake but I suspect if you took the average bloke off the street who is a football enthusiast and put him in charge of a midtable Premier League club with a modest budget, they wouldn't do much worse than most of the managers currently in the league. It's jobs for the boys, and even when they fail (repeatedly) they still get top jobs. This is of course going a bit off topic, the point I'm really making is I'm not convinced that Lambert is some sort of oracle with plans beyond the understanding of mere fans just because he's currently got the Villa gig. Well he earned the right to manage us after being a successful player and then manager for Norwich. He has had his chance and is blowing it so time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) I already have done. Oh you mean: Style of football, signings, injuries, how the seasons panned out, the fact that this season isn't even over yet. Well I don't even know what you mean by the first two. Regarding injuries, it is something that happens. McLeish lost key players for the run-in and it wasn't an excuse for him. To me it just seems like your trump card that is the points by game progression which you have tirelessly used all season has gone bust and now instead of holding your hands up and admitting that no progression has been made under him, you have moved on to other arguments instead. Like I say, no consistancy at all. I've already been through those earlier. I don't think injuries under McLeish were as bad as they have been this season. Lambert was desperately unlucky to lose his two most expensive summer signings (and decent players to boot) for the rest of the season in September and January. Throw in Benteke only being properly fit for about 5 months and all the other little injuries and I think we've had our worst season for injuries in a long long time. I still believe that we've progressed. If you'd read my posts clearer you'd see that what I've been mentioning over and over again is not points per game but rather where we are in relation to the relegation zone. I just hope it stays this way and we don't get properly dragged in. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they have to "admit" to being wrong. I don't believe I have been wrong about the progression. Don't agree with it? Fine, but accept that not everyone thinks the same way as you. I've also always maintained that we've been unlucky with regards to the Okore, Benteke and Kozak injuries. Edited April 5, 2014 by Mantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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