Stevo985 Posted June 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2016 Belgium suffered form the same problem they've been suffering from for years. They're not a team. They have fantastic players, but I can't remember ever watching them and thinking they looked remotely like a decent team. They'll get through the group, but no way will they be anywhere close to winning it. Really enjoyed that game though. Italy looked surprisingly good. Can't see Ireland or Sweden breaking down that defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2016 To have those players at your disposal and get them playing that badly must mark Wilmots out as one of the worst managers on the planet. Sometimes we joke and say 'I could get [insert team] playing that badly' but honestly this time I really could manage those players as well as he does. And the glaringly obvious tactical shortcoming of using an over the shoulder striker like Lukaku when you have those attacking midfielders in your side rather than a hold it up and lay it off striker like Benteke is damning aswell. I would love Belgium to get a very rude awakening in this group and if they continue playing like they did against Italy then I wouldn't totally rule it out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think Wilmots should have gone ages ago. Teams have gone on to win tournaments after losing their first game but I can't see it with Belgium, despite the fact they have as many talented individuals as any other Country in the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 He has so much pace, width and creativity in the squad and he has snail de Bruyne on the wing and Fellaini at #10. You literally could not have played more in to Italy's hands. Trying to play through the middle when a team has 3 CBs and 3 CMs, 5 of which are big players, nullifying the height advantage of Lukaku/Fellaini is a huge mistake. Then Hazard and de Bruyne kept cutting in which left the Italian wide men so much space all night. Candreva has probably never had so much space in a game over and over again in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: He has so much pace, width and creativity in the squad and he has snail de Bruyne on the wing and Fellaini at #10. You literally could not have played more in to Italy's hands. Trying to play through the middle when a team has 3 CBs and 3 CMs, 5 of which are big players, nullifying the height advantage of Lukaku/Fellaini is a huge mistake. Then Hazard and de Bruyne kept cutting in which left the Italian wide men so much space all night. Candreva has probably never had so much space in a game over and over again in his career. Let's just hope it takes him one MORE game before he learns all those lessons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 1 minute ago, BOF said: Let's just hope it takes him one MORE game before he learns all those lessons Ireland should go 3-5-2 just to annoy him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 40 minutes ago, BOF said: To have those players at your disposal and get them playing that badly must mark Wilmots out as one of the worst managers on the planet. Sometimes we joke and say 'I could get [insert team] playing that badly' but honestly this time I really could manage those players as well as he does. And the glaringly obvious tactical shortcoming of using an over the shoulder striker like Lukaku when you have those attacking midfielders in your side rather than a hold it up and lay it off striker like Benteke is damning aswell. I would love Belgium to get a very rude awakening in this group and if they continue playing like they did against Italy then I wouldn't totally rule it out. I loved Wilmots as a player so I cut him some slack as a coach. He's not worst coach of all time, getting Belgium to World cup quarter finals in their first appearance at major tournament for 100 years wasn't that bad an effort, losing narrowly to Argentina who were a very difficult team to score against in the competition. These players haven't suddenly just started appearing for Belgium in last two years, Fellani, Kompany, Vertongthen, Witsel all been playing for Belgium since 2006. They couldn't qualify for euro 2008, 2010 or 2012 so surely you look at previous managers like Dick Advocaat for examples who couldn't even get them to major tournament? However Wilmots tactics last night if we can even call them that were a shambles. I think he knows deep down he's a dead man walking as soon as this tournament ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2016 I feel bad for Belgians because that group of players could genuinely do something. They could genuinely win the Euros. But they're wasting a golden generation. I know that phrase is over used, but when will a country the size of Belgium produce a group as talented as this one again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 It takes time though. I thought germany would win Euro 2008, 2010 and 2012 all at one point due to how good that generation was but they couldn't take that final step mentally in those competitions, Spain could. France were a little similar at last world cup, ripped it up early on but then came against Germany and had no answer. Teams have to mature mentally aswell. It's not all about talent as only Italy defenders and Buffon would get in the Belgium team imo. Big worry is just how disorganized Belgium looked, their team was just full of individuals playing their own game. As we saw with England it wins you nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 1 minute ago, VillaChris said: It's not all about talent as only Italy defenders and Buffon would get in the Belgium team imo. Witsel isn't fit to lace De Rossi's boots. I'd argue Candreva would get in there as well. because he's better than Carrassco, Mertens and de Bruyne as a winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Always like De Rossi but he's a bit old now and not as influential for Roma anymore. Doubt he'd be starting if Marchiso and Verrati were fit. Candreva though...love that player. Amazed he's still at Lazio...he's scored 41 goals in 150 games for them which is incredible for a winger. Could be a plan B signing for Chelsea perhaps if they don't get main targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2016 They do seem to be regressing though. That's the big issue Wilmots has and it's why he's a dead man walking. A generation of players should be getting better each time. This lot look like they've never played together, despite the fact they've played together by and large for the past 5 years at least, and at a (young) stage in their own careers where they should be making leaps and bounds. I don't doubt that the poor seasons the likes of Hazard and Benteke have had is having an impact on them at international level, but again, there are fairly fundamental tactical issues with their lineup at the moment that are solely down to Wilmots and nothing to do with form. Long may it continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Wilmots is a poor manager. In many ways Belgium have an embarrassment of riches in certain positions, but he has been unable to effectively organise them into a proper team. They simply lack balance and ideas. For starters they need to drop Lukaku, personally I'd throw in Benteke since he can play with his back to goal a lot better, and with one up front you really do need a striker who can do this. Then, I'd drop Nainngolan and bring in Dembele since Dembele is vastly superior. Finally, as pointed out, they are far too narrow and thus they need to make a tough decision viz Hazard and De Bruyen. One of them should be dropped and the one who stays in the team should be moved behind the forward and thus replacing the hopeless Fellani. Then, Mertens should come in on the left hand side as he offers them genuine pace/width, the guy is a huge threat with his ability to run direct down the by-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yes the fact that Wilmots has not organised them into a team is his biggest failing. Even in the world cup they didn't really impress. Stuttering through games to get to the quarters. I still De Bruyne is a better no.10, that wide. He has the ability to play the killer ball. Dembele should be playing. He shouldn't have broken the Spurs cb pairing up. They looked all over the place against Italy. Too many square pegs in round holes. I still think Benteke is the best choice up front, because hes better at holding the ball up and brnging others into play than Origi or Lukaku, but it seems he's third choice now. Liverpool has been a disasterous move for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Origi is a more athletic version of Ali Dia, terrible player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'd go with this personally. I do not rate Witsel at all. Dembele - Nainggolan Hazard - de Bruyne - Mertens Benteke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Russia kicked out or have BBC jumped the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think Origi is OK. Having a Liverpool supporting brother means I've seen him play a few times and toward the end of the season he was much improved and scored a few crackers. He suits the Belgian system better because he makes good runs and opens space for their attacking midfielders. Benteke is better playing with his back to goal but that will only mean that Belgium's play will remain ponderous and in front of the defence. Lukaku should be the right fit but, as Henry mentioned, his runs just aren't clever enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2016 1 minute ago, West said: Russia kicked out or have BBC jumped the gun? "Suspended" DQ. Basically means if they do anything else, they're gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: "Suspended" DQ. Basically means if they do anything else, they're gone. Oh I see, they have changed their story real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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