snowychap Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Britain is much "different" than it was 30 years ago. Is it worse? Not a chance, imo. What size twinkle in your folks' eye were you in 1984? In all honesty, I get your point and it's a valid one but equally valid (and the argument is over how true rather than how valid, I guess) is whether the majority are ever willing to realize their own predicament especially when it appears to be not treating them badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) What's that Socrates quote from thousands of years ago? "Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers." There are a number of problems with this - chief amongst them is that Socrates would have been very unlikely (if the writings of Plato, Xenepohon and a few others are to be taken as a true representation of him) to have criticized the 'youth' in that way. Still, that's the youth of today: seeing summat plastered on facebook and taking it as gospel. You're right Snowy. The quote originates from Aristophanes The Clouds which takes the piss out of Socrates. I suppose the modern equivalent would be mistaking a quote from Rev Blair in Private Eye for a real one. Stevo's point still stands in that there was a movement of Sophists in Athens which was unpopular and people used the youth aspect of many of their followers to dismiss the movement (ultimately resulting in a capital charge for Socrates for corrupting the youth). The same mistakes have been repeated throughout history. Edited July 22, 2014 by RunRickyRun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Stevo's point still stands in that there was a movement of Sophists in Athens which was unpopular and people used the youth aspect of many of their followers to dismiss the movement (ultimately resulting in a capital charge for Socrates for corrupting the youth). The same mistakes have been repeated throughout history.I think you give Ben more credit than he deserves here (sorry, Stevo but there are times for plain speaking).He isn't talking about any kind of band of Sophists - he's seen some internet quote about 'youth' and has seen that as the answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Well judging by the news of the last year or so I'm sure as shit happy that I was born and live here. It's like winning the lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'm still trying to work out what a Brazilian footballer has got to do with anything Tbf to stevo he wasn't trying to act profound , he was quite clear on the origins of the quote rather than trying to impress us that he read Plato :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 ...he was quite clear on the origins of the quote rather than trying to impress us that he read Plato :winkold:You wot?Quite clear on the origins of the quote? Did he say that it was plucked from the other end of the hill of shite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) ...he was quite clear on the origins of the quote rather than trying to impress us that he read Plato :winkold:You wot? Quite clear on the origins of the quote? Did he say that it was plucked from the other end of the hill of shite? So what if it was written by Kenneth Freeman , about 99% of the world seem to think it was Socrates so he's hardly committed the crime of the century in using it from the Internet ... And probably not Facebook since accuracy seems to be the order of the day here Edited July 23, 2014 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 So what if it was written by Kenneth Frreman , about 99% of the world seem to think it was Socrates so he's hardly committed the crime of the century in using it from the Internet ... And probably not Facebook since accuracy seems to be the order of the day here What the **** hell is the point of conversing with this kind of shite?Are you and your ilk going to keep on telling yourself that left is actually right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 23, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 23, 2014 Imagine there's no countries. It isn't hard to do. I can honestly say I've never felt particularly bothered by the idea of Britishness; it seems unimportant. It gives us someone to support at sporting events, but the pomp and pageantry has always seemed a little absurd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 23, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Stevo's point still stands in that there was a movement of Sophists in Athens which was unpopular and people used the youth aspect of many of their followers to dismiss the movement (ultimately resulting in a capital charge for Socrates for corrupting the youth). The same mistakes have been repeated throughout history.I think you give Ben more credit than he deserves here (sorry, Stevo but there are times for plain speaking). He isn't talking about any kind of band of Sophists - he's seen some internet quote about 'youth' and has seen that as the answer!I knew the origin of the quote was blurry. I didn't see it on Facebook, I saw it on villatalk the last time we had this discussion and the same debate came up then about whether the quote was real or not. And it doesn't matter where the quote came from, its largely irrelevant. What matters is what the "quote" represents. My point is people always complain about the youth and the state of the world now and have done for hundreds and thousands of years. Yet the world keeps on getting better. I don't think the fact that I got the origin of the quote wrong undermines that point. Edited July 23, 2014 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 23, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2014 Britain is much "different" than it was 30 years ago. Is it worse? Not a chance, imo. What size twinkle in your folks' eye were you in 1984? *rolls eyes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 And it doesn't matter where the quote came from, its largely irrelevant.That's a load of crap. People 'quote' someone famous or well known because they think it adds weight to their argument.*rolls eyes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Are you and your ilk going to keep on telling yourself that left is actually right? Inhabitants of planet Earth rather than someone living in La La land ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Inhabitants of planet Earth rather than someone living in La La land ? Now, now. We know you don't like the French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 23, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2014 And it doesn't matter where the quote came from, its largely irrelevant. That's a load of crap. People 'quote' someone famous or well known because they think it adds weight to their argument. *rolls eyes* A valid point. But what I'm saying is if I'd correctly sourced that quote, or if my post didn't contain that quote at all, then the general point behind the post still stands. ps no need to be so hostile about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 ps no need to be so hostile about it!Sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 'Any holes a goal' - Ghandi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Inhabitants of planet Earth rather than someone living in La La land ? Now, now. We know you don't like the French. with one exception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted July 23, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2014 'Any holes a goal' - Ghandi. Ah shit, I've been attributing the wrong quote to him for years in that case. Thought his was 'two in the pink and one in the stink'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 No, that was Mandela. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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