samjp26 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Won't fill the pages with quotes but honestly Bobzy what is the soul of this club? You're basically saying you would rather see us be shite and get relegated than spend a lot of money to be considered good again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I dont care about his intentions and whether he makes Villa a feeder club but I do care about his moral opinions and whether he will try make Villa non family friendly club and still deal with charities like Acorns. maybe its better the devil you know at the moment This I agree with but I can't see anybody taking over and cutting ties with a local charity, it would be a PR disaster for no apparent reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Won't fill the pages with quotes but honestly Bobzy what is the soul of this club? You're basically saying you would rather see us be shite and get relegated than spend a lot of money to be considered good again. In essence, yes. The soul of the club (to me?) is building links with the local community, ensuring a passage of youth players into the first team and maintaining a fan base that is, above all else, grounded and modest. We've not really had delusions of grandeur for many a year. It's these kind of things that I, personally, admire about Villa. It's what stands us above so many clubs in the league that are... well, soulless. To be honest, it's mainly a problem within England and would be through no fault of "our own". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Every club outside of the top 4 is a feeder club. Look at Southampton already, being picked apart in an instant. We had the press calling for Arsenal to pry Benteke away from us just 4 months into his first season. Was just about to type the same. There are very few clubs who aren't in danger of losing their best players to clubs higher up in the food-chain. That is always going to happen, the important thing is how you reinvest. For example Sevilla lost most of their key players last summer (Navas, Negredo, Medel etc.) but importantly reinvested well and and improved as a team. This guy (if true, etc.) is basically us completely selling the soul of Aston Villa, becoming a money club and gaining plastic fans. Maybe we're the next Man City? Then again, this all seems to appease the majority of fans on here who want nothing more than; a ) Money thrown at the club b ) Success Maybe that's all football is really about these days after all. The emboldened seems to be one of those phrases just thrown around these days without any thought into what it actually means. Also, are you seriously bemoaning the fact that fans want success at their clubs? The whole purpose of sport is that you aim to be better than your competitors, not to be content with failure and mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Premier League FFP means that we couldn't spend more than we earn even if an owner was willing to bankroll us. The Premier league FFP is more restrictive than Uefa FFP (but not as restrictive as Championship FFP). Are you sure about that? I am pretty sure the premier league FFP isn't as restrictive as UEFA's. Correct well yes and no. You are allowed to make a higher loss, but where Premier league is more restrictive is that you can only increase salaries by £4m a year (plus by any increase in sponsorship). So not only could a new owner not spend lots of transfer fees and make a loss, he also couldn't increase wages by more than £4m (and a decent premier league player costs around £2.5m). So thats roughly 2 extra players the new owner could buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Ok, I pretty much agreed with Bobzy until the last post. But I think it's nonsense to assume that fans want either a criminal enterprise that wins everything or a family friendly, community rooted club that gets relegated every single year, forever, I want neither. I want a club that's honest, connected, and involved in the community, smart with marketing, positive on the field, and builds gradually to a club to be reckoned with, both on the field and in the balance books. I don't think it's impossible. I just think it's the hard way. But it is unquestionably, the way I would prefer. Of course, like all of us, what I would prefer wont dictate what happens, and like most of us, I'll take whoever Randy decides to sell to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm usually a sceptic but evem I don't really get the outrage over this one. The fact he owns a sports group which has access to an extensive scouting network and many contacts within the game makes me believe that he'd be exactly the sort of guy who knows how to run a football club. His moral sanctity really isn't that big an issue to me although as already clarified, there isn't enough evidence to go around labelling him a terrorist-dealer etc. Regarding the prostitution thing, he was acquitted and incase anyone has missed it, the basic principal is that you have to assume that acquittal equals innocence unless evidence comes along to suggest otherwise. Do you want Villa to be a feeder club for the big money bag teams year in year out? IMO this is why this boy is interested. With Fifa going to ban 3rd party ownership only other way round it is buy a club and let them own the player. I dont care about what type of character he is to be fair but what i dont want us to be is a feeder club. We are the 4th most successful club in the best league in the world and are better than that. Epitomises everything that is wrong with football at the moment. Every club outside of the top 4 is a feeder club. Look at Southampton already, being picked apart in an instant. We had the press calling for Arsenal to pry Benteke away from us just 4 months into his first season. Villa need to be a top four club and we need owners who can take us there. We won't get there with this guy using the club as a shop window for his players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) This guy (if true, etc.) is basically us completely selling the soul of Aston Villa, becoming a money club and gaining plastic fans. Maybe we're the next Man City? Then again, this all seems to appease the majority of fans on here who want nothing more than; a ) Money thrown at the club b ) Success Maybe that's all football is really about these days after all. The emboldened seems to be one of those phrases just thrown around these days without any thought into what it actually means. Also, are you seriously bemoaning the fact that fans want success at their clubs? The whole purpose of sport is that you aim to be better than your competitors, not to be content with failure and mediocrity. If you read my other posts, you'll see what I'm saying. (Also, back in this thread where people were happy for Villa Park to be renamed. Seriously, **** off). And no, of course I don't bemoan the fact that fans want success. Obviously many of us have varying opinions on many aspects of Aston Villa (which is why this is such an engrossing forum, really) but I would like to achieve success through proper competition. Two points to this; - Firstly, the Premier League/Champions League discourages this. The disparity in earnings if you don't finish at the top of the league/quality for the CL is ridiculous and is a huge factor in why modern-day football (another phrase thrown around, right? ) is fairly shit on the most part. Not many teams will break the monotony of Chelsea/Man City/Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern Munich - which is a shame and also a far cry from previous years (read: pre-1992 really). Perhaps this is why foreign owners are needed or why they should never have been allowed into the country in the first place (Lerner included). - Secondly, if all you're after is success then why not just support a successful team? Why bother with the grind of being a fan of Millwall, Barnsley, Burton Albion, West Brom, Aston Villa et al? The amount of people who jump on success is both sickening and also has a negative impact on the atmosphere at a ground (see; Chelsea, Man City, hell, even Arsenal to an extent). Obviously, ideals are not always apparent. Similarly, we obviously need to improve our playing staff to ensure Premier League survival and to be more competitive. For me, I just don't want it to be with billions and billions. I don't want to simply buy success - it doesn't prove anything other than money wins. Give me an owner that cares about the club but isn't insanely wealthy over a ridiculously rich owner any day of the week. Edited May 30, 2014 by bobzy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You're basically saying you would rather see us be shite and get relegated than spend a lot of money to be considered good again. You're assuming that this Arif person would spend a lot of money. He's in it to make money, not lose it. His plan would be to use Villa to churn players through it. he wouldn't care whether we finish 5th or 15th (as long as we don't get relegated). he won't have any interest in building up the club, or long-term planning, or what is best for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 That's quite the assumption. Don't think anyone knows what his plans are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I think someone like Arif and Doyen would do everything they can to portray a good public image amongst the 'community'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) You're basically saying you would rather see us be shite and get relegated than spend a lot of money to be considered good again. You're assuming that this Arif person would spend a lot of money. He's in it to make money, not lose it. His plan would be to use Villa to churn players through it. he wouldn't care whether we finish 5th or 15th (as long as we don't get relegated). he won't have any interest in building up the club, or long-term planning, or what is best for the club. How do you know? Are you itk about this guy? Edited May 30, 2014 by AndyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayEm Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 On mobile, has something happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 That's quite the assumption. Don't think anyone knows what his plans are. But we do know what Doyen's plans are. and Arif is part of the Doyen set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) You're assuming that this Arif person would spend a lot of money. He's in it to make money, not lose it. His plan would be to use Villa to churn players through it. he wouldn't care whether we finish 5th or 15th (as long as we don't get relegated). he won't have any interest in building up the club, or long-term planning, or what is best for the club. How do you know? Are you itk about this guy? No, but we publicly know all about Doyen and their plans. and Arif is part of the Doyen set-up. Edited May 30, 2014 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Fao Ender4 You seem hellbent on muddying this guy even though you don't actually know how things would be run if he did take over ? I for one would like us to compete again and by the sounds of it this guy could help that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) I for one would like us to compete again and by the sounds of it this guy could help that. How does he sound like he could help us compete? genuinely interested as i haven't heard even 1 thing that sounds like that. everything we've read about Doyen & Arif points to not competing & not even trying to compete. I hope that i'm totally mistaken though. I'd assume that Randy wouldn't sell to him if that is Arif's intention though, so in that respect i think we're still quite safe. Edited May 30, 2014 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I for one would like us to compete again and by the sounds of it this guy could help that. How does he sound like he could help us compete? genuinely interested as i haven't heard even 1 thing that sounds like that. everything we've read about Doyen & Arif points to not competing & not even trying to compete. I hope that i'm totally mistaken though. I'd assume that Randy wouldn't sell to him if that is Arif's intention though, so in that respect i think we're still quite safe. Everything about Doyen points to not competing? What on earth are you on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I for one would like us to compete again and by the sounds of it this guy could help that. How does he sound like he could help us compete? genuinely interested as i haven't heard even 1 thing that sounds like that. everything we've read about Doyen & Arif points to not competing & not even trying to compete. I hope that i'm totally mistaken though. I'd assume that Randy wouldn't sell to him if that is Arif's intention though, so in that respect i think we're still quite safe. Everything about Doyen points to not competing? What on earth are you on about? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Everything about Doyen points to not competing? What on earth are you on about? Well, i think we've gone through the negatives enough, and discussed about Doyen buying young players and then churning them to make a profit. What do you understand about Doyen which makes you think that they would make Villa compete in the longer-term? As i'm at a complete loss for positive points... and very interested if there are positives - none have been mentioned so far in this thread except the vague "will make Villa compete" Edited May 30, 2014 by ender4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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