Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

The more Lambert praises our owner in the press the less sympathy I have for the constraints his working under.

It's good business practice. Not that I'd know about such things, swearing at customers and what not.

How so? Surely all it does is put more pressure on himself and make people ignore what ever constraints he's been put under. If Lerner's such a brilliant owner to work for then Lambert must be even worse producing this level of football.

 

 

In what world would Lambert do an article on the OS (which RL owns), that slags off RL?

 

Seems to be another stick tbh.

[AstonMartin82]

 

The main reason why we are not playing decent football and picking up results is as other have said already on this thread. The loss of form of 4 of the main 11. No team can cope with that... especially not one the size of our club. We will come good again. Keep the faith.

Brilliant. You're gonna have a go at people on here and your best argument is keep the faith, we did it in the past.

Great stuff.

 

 

Good to see you read my post properly before vomiting.

 

No doubt you were calling for Lamberts head at the same point last season before we turned it around. History shows that he has turned things around before and this is a better solution than "Sack the manager" with very little thought about who is out there ready to replace him who could do a better job (until they lose a couple of games and then you want them sacked as well).

[Cliffy Biro]

The more Lambert praises our owner in the press the less sympathy I have for the constraints his working under.

 

 

When you're doing such a poor job, praising the owner is a good way to go although as we all know lambert isnt in much danger anyway with lerner not wanting another payout.

[Big_John_10]

The more Lambert praises our owner in the press the less sympathy I have for the constraints his working under.

It's good business practice. Not that I'd know about such things, swearing at customers and what not.

How so? Surely all it does is put more pressure on himself and make people ignore what ever constraints he's been put under. If Lerner's such a brilliant owner to work for then Lambert must be even worse producing this level of football.

In what world would Lambert do an article on the OS (which RL owns), that slags off RL?

Seems to be another stick tbh.

Who said slag him off? But he keeps praising him in the media and not just on the official site.

[Big_John_10]

The main reason why we are not playing decent football and picking up results is as other have said already on this thread. The loss of form of 4 of the main 11. No team can cope with that... especially not one the size of our club. We will come good again. Keep the faith.

Brilliant. You're gonna have a go at people on here and your best argument is keep the faith, we did it in the past.

Great stuff.

Good to see you read my post properly before vomiting.

No doubt you were calling for Lamberts head at the same point last season before we turned it around. History shows that he has turned things around before and this is a better solution than "Sack the manager" with very little thought about who is out there ready to replace him who could do a better job (until they lose a couple of games and then you want them sacked as well).

I don't care if he's sacked or stays, I have little faith in the owners finding better. You seem to dismiss any negative comments or comparisons with what went on previously because we've had one small good blip in a shocking 18 months

[smetrov]

See I'd have argued that form is often coachable and that as a result the coaching staff need to be held accountable, you went for the easy option BJ.

 

No manager would ever be sacked if the form of the players was a valid excuse.

 

I m still hoping that he will come good - but it is just hope - I can't offer a good arguement as to why he should......

[VillaIRE]

The more Lambert praises our owner in the press the less sympathy I have for the constraints his working under.

 

When I was a kid and wanted a particular present for my birthday or Christmas, I made sure I was nice to my parents   ...

[AstonMartin82]

 

 

 

The main reason why we are not playing decent football and picking up results is as other have said already on this thread. The loss of form of 4 of the main 11. No team can cope with that... especially not one the size of our club. We will come good again. Keep the faith.

Brilliant. You're gonna have a go at people on here and your best argument is keep the faith, we did it in the past.

Great stuff.

Good to see you read my post properly before vomiting.

No doubt you were calling for Lamberts head at the same point last season before we turned it around. History shows that he has turned things around before and this is a better solution than "Sack the manager" with very little thought about who is out there ready to replace him who could do a better job (until they lose a couple of games and then you want them sacked as well).

I don't care if he's sacked or stays, I have little faith in the owners finding better. You seem to dismiss any negative comments or comparisons with what went on previously because we've had one small good blip in a shocking 18 months

 

 

I don't dismiss any sensible comments at all. Personally I am not really either for or against Lambert as much as that may not be apparent from this thread. If he is sacked tomorrow, which he won't be, I wouldn't be upset I'd just be a little frustrated that he wasn't given the time to see out his rebuilding job and we would be back to square one yet again but this time another year and a half down the line.

 

I sympathise entirely with peoples frustrations at the lack of quality football being played, the lack of competitiveness which we are showing in games and the lack of entertainment. However, I do buy into the youth for the future policy and I think if Lambert can buy a couple of hard bastard midfielders with some leadership qualities in January to assist Vlaar in heading up the team then we are not too far away from a very talented squad with the correct blend of experience, youth and brute force.

 

It's plain to see to me that we are amiss of a lot of this leadership and brute force. These are the ingredients that are missing not the employment of the wrong manager. The fact that Agbonlahor is Captain when Vlaar is out is an absolute joke. The guy is a fantastic Villa servant but he is as much as a leader as I am a bluenose. I weep before every game when I see him as Captain and I am sure a number of the Villa squad do the same.

 

For these reasons I am willing to put up with the current regime to see what they can do over the January and summer transfer windows. I'm sure we are not far away from a very good squad and I'm even more sure that changing the management would only delay our progress even further. The fact Lambert has delivered this previously gives me hope that he will do it again in the future.

[VillaCas]

 

So let me get this straight if I may.

You have now gone from quoting our improvement in points total at the same stage last season (and I can understand why) to now quoting statistics which apparently excuse our performances under Lambert because we pay low wages. In answering your point I asked you what wages were Gabby, Vlaar, Delph, Weimann, Benteke and Guzan on. You ignored the question.

I then asked you if there is a correlation in performance to wages why is Bent on more wages than Benteke ANSWERED and then quoted you QPR last season who had a high wage outlay yet were relegated. ANSWERED Reading your above post you have yet again failed to reply in context preferring to use sarcasm concerning both Bent and Redknapp. One would have hoped you would have stopped doing that after Berbatov and Adam PREVIOUSLY ANSWERED made you choke on your own opinion of them but obviously ignorance is bliss. LOL

Unless you have the financial clout of the top four, in our mini league there really is no correlation in wages to performance PROOF??? it just comes down to how well you are organised and coached and it is no surprise at all that your very own poster boy according to HH is finally seeing the error of his ways and looking to purchase more experienced players, em, who apparently are not going to be asking the earth in wages. Strange you can actually do that VillaCas isn't it.

Finally just before you go off on another one of your disappearing acts here is a much more relevant stat for you. We'll three actually.

Under your very own poster boy this season we have won two home games in ten with the lowest goals scored in all four divisions. We've won eleven games out of the last forty eight and we're just through an easier set of fixtures.

I note since results are the most important stats of all you have yet to show a result stat table I have absolutely no idea what a result stat table is?? concerning Lambert. I wonder why that is?

 

 

This is not meant as an insult (truly) but you really don't understand the argument do you?

 

I really can't be bothered to go explain it to you, again

[PieFacE]

I don't know where some of you get the enthusiasm to argue in such long posts over something completely out of your control. 

[VillaCas]

We all know McLeish was awful we all know how bad that team was. So why is it worthy of praise or a sign of good things to come that we're performing to a similar standard with less money spent on wages?

I don't get that point at all. If McLeish had done a great job and we were doing similar with a cheaper budget then yes, I could see how that's worthy of praise but being pretty much just as crap but spending less makes no sense how its deemed a positive.

If all we're to expect is to be like McLeish but cheaper then what are the expectations for the future?

 

It's not a "sign of good things too come" - it's a sign that finances have been drastically reduced and the future looks bleak and our best chance is to stick with LAmbert

 

Lambert is getting a better return points-wise than McL whilst spending far less - thats a good thing

 

The fact that it is only enough for bottom half football is a bad thing

 

Expectations for the future are up to Lerner - similar finances to Norwich and we can expect to finish alongside them, similar finances as MON has and we can expect / demand a top six finish

 

[VillaCas]

 

 

 

While he had the remit of change DK was he forced into doing it so quickly or could it have been more gradual. Giving Bent the captaincy would suggest the latter but the real question should be has he improved our squad and one would have to say looking at the standard of football played and present points trend the answer would have to be no.

That may change though if he brings the right signings in when the window opens and I am prepared to give him that time to turn us around. That's why it's probably the most important transfer window coming up in Lambert's tenure and if backed by Lerner he must get it right this time with no more shocking purchases.

 

 

Good grief.....again with this nonsense.   That's not at all the real question AT ALL

 

Only in your fantasy world would you expect someone going from a £70m a year to a £35m a year wage bill to "improve" the squad!

 

We are in a cost-cutting operation - the real question is are we getting better value for the amount of resource employed and CLEARLY we are - Lambert earnt more points and better position than McL whilst utilising resource that cost and earnt massively less - so by any standard that is better

 

Is that the best that any manager could do? Possibly not - Rodgers or Moyes for example might do better. Is that better than any other manager that Villa could attract could do? probably yes

 

You have totally mis-understood the nature of the task facing us

 

 

The wages bill for 31 May 2011 was £83m, to 31 May 2012 was £70m.  I'd be absolutely astonished if the May 2013 accounts that are due out in a couple of months show that it's dropped to £35m.

 

 

Risso, you apparently work with figures - which part of my earlier post concerning the correlation between wages and performance do you disagree with?

 

I don't know exactly how much the the figure to May 2013 will be, but I know the run rate for wages at the moment must be massively down on McL reign

 

[VillaCas]

 

I believe Lambert was right to freeze out the overpaid, underperformers (I also believe that this was part of the agreement with Lerner when he took the job)

I believe that the £40m figure that is constantly trotted out is a red herring - in the same period we have lost players that cost double that to recruit

 

Just want to reply to the two points in bold as we've debated everything else.

 

I am also in no doubt that removing under-performing players on high wages was in the remit but any manager would want to do that anyway irrespective of the budget. Where we differ is that he did not have to use the guillotine on the first team in the way that he did. I have seen no quote or anything substantiated to suggest differently. What I have seen however is a quote from the chief executive stating that Lambert had a budget and it was up to him how he spent it. That's right he got rid of some and kept some - he discarded/did not renew Heskey, Holman, Collins, Cuellar, Makoun, Warnock and Hutton. He kept Given, Ireland, Dunne, Bent, Bannan, Zog, Gabby, Andi, Delph, Clark, Baker. He would have kept Petrov too if that had been an option which sadly it was not. Given, Ireland, Dunne, Bent and Bannan have since been discarded as they didn't perform and/or didn't have the right attitude and/or we already had a better option. There is not one player discarded (with the obvious exception of Petrov) who I wish was still here

 

Concerning your second point I think Risso has quoted stats showing an expenditure of 40m plus. Unsurprisingly you've misunderstood, again. We've paid out around £40m in fees whislt losing players that cost us around £80m in fees - a net outgoing of talent of £40m

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2013 by VillaCas

[VillaCas]

 

 

You're right - we should be better this season - the reason we are not is due I think to a number of factors - i) Bad form of certain players, Weimann, Lowton, Benteke etc, ii) Injures to key players Vlaar, Delph, Okore, Benteke  and finally  iii) other teams more familiar with our style

 

There is a load of nonesense currently being spouted about "young and hungry" has failed and now there is a rush for experience. In his first season I think Lambert expected that Ireland, Bent, Dunne and Zog could provide the experience to help the youngsters but none really stepped up to the plate. During last summer Lambert enquired about Sissoko (not experience but quality) and Kiyotake and also apparently wanted Barry and Lukaku but funds were not available - it may be that Lambert felt like whatever was available experience-wise was not VFM or any better than what was here already

 

Lambert's achilles heel is the signing of Tonev and Helenious which although only for relatively small amounts have failed to deliver so far

 

Hold on here a minute. You can't have it both ways here. You've continually stated on site that it was in the remit of Lambert from the start to get rid of all the high earners as we couldn't afford their wages yet its now he has got rid of them because he they didn't step up to the plate?

 

 

Do you honestly beleive Lerner will continue to foot the bill for £60k a week players??????

 

Under McL this bunch of misfits earnt 15 points from there last 19 games. They were not worth £6k a week, let alone £60k! Lambert rightly got rid of as many as possible and would have got rid of all of them all if there had been any takers at all. The fact that no-one will buy any of them speaks volumes.

 

Players like Ireland and Bent were given the chance to put themselves in the shop window and failed spectacularly. Bent in particular let Lambert down, even when he was given the captaincy. The fact that he has gone on to Fulham an can't get in their team says it all. Some of the reviews of his rare performances have been spectaculalry damning. To quote a Villa coach " Bent wouldn't run 15 yards for you"

 

[Electric Avenue]

Nice charts and all that but I go on what's in front of me on the football field. I've seen enough of this insipid shit from team lambert and I want them gone. He will take us down.

[TRO]

The main reason why we are not playing decent football and picking up results is as other have said already on this thread. The loss of form of 4 of the main 11. No team can cope with that... especially not one the size of our club. We will come good again. Keep the faith.

Brilliant. You're gonna have a go at people on here and your best argument is keep the faith, we did it in the past.

Great stuff.

Good to see you read my post properly before vomiting.

No doubt you were calling for Lamberts head at the same point last season before we turned it around. History shows that he has turned things around before and this is a better solution than "Sack the manager" with very little thought about who is out there ready to replace him who could do a better job (until they lose a couple of games and then you want them sacked as well).

I don't care if he's sacked or stays, I have little faith in the owners finding better. You seem to dismiss any negative comments or comparisons with what went on previously because we've had one small good blip in a shocking 18 months

 

I don't dismiss any sensible comments at all. Personally I am not really either for or against Lambert as much as that may not be apparent from this thread. If he is sacked tomorrow, which he won't be, I wouldn't be upset I'd just be a little frustrated that he wasn't given the time to see out his rebuilding job and we would be back to square one yet again but this time another year and a half down the line.

 

I sympathise entirely with peoples frustrations at the lack of quality football being played, the lack of competitiveness which we are showing in games and the lack of entertainment. However, I do buy into the youth for the future policy and I think if Lambert can buy a couple of hard bastard midfielders with some leadership qualities in January to assist Vlaar in heading up the team then we are not too far away from a very talented squad with the correct blend of experience, youth and brute force.

 

It's plain to see to me that we are amiss of a lot of this leadership and brute force. These are the ingredients that are missing not the employment of the wrong manager. The fact that Agbonlahor is Captain when Vlaar is out is an absolute joke. The guy is a fantastic Villa servant but he is as much as a leader as I am a bluenose. I weep before every game when I see him as Captain and I am sure a number of the Villa squad do the same.

 

For these reasons I am willing to put up with the current regime to see what they can do over the January and summer transfer windows. I'm sure we are not far away from a very good squad and I'm even more sure that changing the management would only delay our progress even further. The fact Lambert has delivered this previously gives me hope that he will do it again in the future.

The main reason why we are not playing decent football and picking up results is as other have said already on this thread. The loss of form of 4 of the main 11. No team can cope with that... especially not one the size of our club. We will come good again. Keep the faith.

Brilliant. You're gonna have a go at people on here and your best argument is keep the faith, we did it in the past.

Great stuff.

Good to see you read my post properly before vomiting.

No doubt you were calling for Lamberts head at the same point last season before we turned it around. History shows that he has turned things around before and this is a better solution than "Sack the manager" with very little thought about who is out there ready to replace him who could do a better job (until they lose a couple of games and then you want them sacked as well).

I don't care if he's sacked or stays, I have little faith in the owners finding better. You seem to dismiss any negative comments or comparisons with what went on previously because we've had one small good blip in a shocking 18 months

 

I don't dismiss any sensible comments at all. Personally I am not really either for or against Lambert as much as that may not be apparent from this thread. If he is sacked tomorrow, which he won't be, I wouldn't be upset I'd just be a little frustrated that he wasn't given the time to see out his rebuilding job and we would be back to square one yet again but this time another year and a half down the line.

 

I sympathise entirely with peoples frustrations at the lack of quality football being played, the lack of competitiveness which we are showing in games and the lack of entertainment. However, I do buy into the youth for the future policy and I think if Lambert can buy a couple of hard bastard midfielders with some leadership qualities in January to assist Vlaar in heading up the team then we are not too far away from a very talented squad with the correct blend of experience, youth and brute force.

 

It's plain to see to me that we are amiss of a lot of this leadership and brute force. These are the ingredients that are missing not the employment of the wrong manager. The fact that Agbonlahor is Captain when Vlaar is out is an absolute joke. The guy is a fantastic Villa servant but he is as much as a leader as I am a bluenose. I weep before every game when I see him as Captain and I am sure a number of the Villa squad do the same.

 

For these reasons I am willing to put up with the current regime to see what they can do over the January and summer transfer windows. I'm sure we are not far away from a very good squad and I'm even more sure that changing the management would only delay our progress even further. The fact Lambert has delivered this previously gives me hope that he will do it again in the future.

Oh what would give for a Shaun Teale right now.

Not a great deal of money, but bloody effective and you could hardly say I' m talking pie in the sky as far as fee/wages are concerned.

We need leaders.

[VillaCas]

I don't know where some of you get the enthusiasm to argue in such long posts over something completely out of your control. 

 

You're right of course - I just think that it's important to give someone a few seasons to sort things out. Another manager now and we are back to square one.......again

 

My posts after McL went, were in favour of Poyet (although he was never really in the frame) - after the start hes made at Sunderland it would be easy for me to say, "see we should have gone for Poyet!" however, in conversations with football professionals who know far more than I do, I've been convinced that Lambert is much more the finished article and although Poyet may go on to be a top manager, he has not yet got the kind of experience required at Villa

 

In my opinion, many people have underestimated the size of the task required to turn us around - as I pointed out in a previous post if there is a large disparity between your expectation and reality you are going to be severly dissatified and that is what we are seeing at the moment

 

The problem stems back through McL and Houllier to MONs time here. Lerner has dug a massive hole for himself and Lambert has put his previusly excelelnt reputation on the line, gambling that once the books are balanced he will be able to get us back to somewhere like we feel we should be.

 

It's a little like herding cats trying to respond to the random postings on here - you think you've established an understanding on something and then the discussion goes off on a completely different random tangent....... I think I'm going to take your point on board though and dramatically limit my responses on here going forward

[TRO]

You're right - we should be better this season - the reason we are not is due I think to a number of factors - i) Bad form of certain players, Weimann, Lowton, Benteke etc, ii) Injures to key players Vlaar, Delph, Okore, Benteke and finally iii) other teams more familiar with our style

There is a load of nonesense currently being spouted about "young and hungry" has failed and now there is a rush for experience. In his first season I think Lambert expected that Ireland, Bent, Dunne and Zog could provide the experience to help the youngsters but none really stepped up to the plate. During last summer Lambert enquired about Sissoko (not experience but quality) and Kiyotake and also apparently wanted Barry and Lukaku but funds were not available - it may be that Lambert felt like whatever was available experience-wise was not VFM or any better than what was here already

Lambert's achilles heel is the signing of Tonev and Helenious which although only for relatively small amounts have failed to deliver so far

Hold on here a minute. You can't have it both ways here. You've continually stated on site that it was in the remit of Lambert from the start to get rid of all the high earners as we couldn't afford their wages yet its now he has got rid of them because he they didn't step up to the plate?

Do you honestly beleive Lerner will continue to foot the bill for £60k a week players??????

Under McL this bunch of misfits earnt 15 points from there last 19 games. They were not worth £6k a week, let alone £60k! Lambert rightly got rid of as many as possible and would have got rid of all of them all if there had been any takers at all. The fact that no-one will buy any of them speaks volumes.

Players like Ireland and Bent were given the chance to put themselves in the shop window and failed spectacularly. Bent in particular let Lambert down, even when he was given the captaincy. The fact that he has gone on to Fulham an can't get in their team says it all. Some of the reviews of his rare performances have been spectaculalry damning. To quote a Villa coach " Bent wouldn't run 15 yards for you"

I can' t speak for the owner, but my guess is if he could be sure a 60k per week player would play like one he might be convinced, to accept one or two for starters....until he gains confidence to get more.

I'm not trying to defend him.....but he's been scorched with dross.

This owner has had to contend with far too many players that have masqueraded as 60k per week players and produced what a 5 - 15k per week player is likely to produce....one or two he can wear.....there has simply been too many over a period of time through various managers.

We have just bought too many "pigs in pokes"

Edited December 30, 2013 by TRO

[VillaCas]

Nice charts and all that but I go on what's in front of me on the football field. I've seen enough of this insipid shit from team lambert and I want them gone. He will take us down.

 

.......and bring in another manager, who will struggle with exactly the same problems, who will want to bring in his own players and 18 months down the line you will want him gone too.......and over and over

[Robbie09]

 

Nice charts and all that but I go on what's in front of me on the football field. I've seen enough of this insipid shit from team lambert and I want them gone. He will take us down.

 

.......and bring in another manager, who will struggle with exactly the same problems, who will want to bring in his own players and 18 months down the line you will want him gone too.......and over and over

 

 

Spot on VillaCas.

 

18 months isn't long enough to turn our club around. I'm sure we will survive this season so I'll stomach the dull football in the short term as I expect us to see the benefits from next season onwards.