Rovers13 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 There was one thread on the brfcs forum that had A LOT of conspiratorial allegations, I remember it of locked, but not until 21 pages had passed. I can't find it now though. None of them seemed solid though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) Hughton has had more on wages, he didn't inherit a side that was full of players earning far too much like lambert did at villa. Also, either lambert deserves a ton of credit for helping Norwich punch above their weight that season, or Hughton unnecessarily overhauled a squad that actually had premier league ability, and wasn't confident that he could get similar results to lambert. Either way, lambert comes out better. Hughton hasn't exactly bought in loads of high earners either. Secondly, he inherited a worse squad with less assets than Lambert. Like I said before, nearly all of that squad have returned to the lower-leagues which summarises their ability. Obviously, I'm not saying that as a slant on Lambert as he did the best he could on the budget he had there and yes, who would deny him credit for Norwich's first season up. In context though, promoted sides exceeding expectations in their first season is nothing new. The second-season is always a truer barometer of their level. Finally, don't think I'm offering any sort of defence of Hughton. I don't rate him or Lambert. Edited April 8, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Not that many sides go down second season, far more go down the first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 True but 'second-season syndrome' does exist and when you consider most of that squad have proven to be lower-league players, it was still a relatively big challenge that Hughton walked into also. I thought he did quite well to keep them up last season in fact. His failure (like Lambert's) has been the regression this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) I don't think it does. Ignore the fact that this is from the daily mail. "Clubs promoted to the Premier League (1992-2011) – 59 Clubs relegated after first season - 26 Clubs relegated after second season - 7 Middlesbrough 1995/96 12th (43 points)1996/97 19th (39 points)**deducted three points Bradford 1999/00 17th (36 points)2000/01 20th (26 points) Ipswich2000/01 5th (66 points)2001/02 18th (36 points) West Brom2004/05 17th (34 points)2005/06 19th (30 points) Reading2006/07 8th (55 points)2007/08 18th (36 points) Hull2008/09 17th (35 points)2009/10 19th (30 points) Birmingham2009/10 9th (50 points)2010/11 18th (39 points)" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2188224/Premier-League--does-second-season-syndrome-exist.htmlInteresting concept though, I've always wanted to look at the data on that. Edited April 8, 2014 by Rovers13 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Fair enough, I thought it was higher than that. Good research there R13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I think it's 23, but right around there yes. They have a really shitty squad though, is part of the problem. Di canios summer was a disaster Though Poyet buys two South American footballers and Bridcutt, tells the fans you won't see the best of the South Americans until next season. Could you imagine the uproar if Lambert said that being bottom of the league. It's interesting though, as I remember at the time they were linked to Pulis and there fans were dead against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 It's interesting though, as I remember at the time they were linked to Pulis and there fans were dead against it. I think it's like West Ham with Allardyce - strange delusions that they deserve a certain style of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 To be fair I don't think the Sunderland fans had any pretensions of being some club with an history of free flowing one touch football. After Bruce, Di Canio and O'neill they were probably quite used to being a long ball team I'm sure Poyet would have been seen as the antidote to that and I think fans of most clubs would have prefered Poyet to Pullis such was Pullis's reputation for an unattractive game at Stoke despite how well he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 To be fair I don't think the Sunderland fans had any pretensions of being some club with an history of free flowing one touch football. After Bruce, Di Canio and O'neill they were probably quite used to being a long ball team I'm sure Poyet would have been seen as the antidote to that and I think fans of most clubs would have prefered Poyet to Pullis such was Pullis's reputation for an unattractive game at Stoke despite how well he did. The problem is, to play a certain style of football and succeed, you need players of a certain quality. TP would have had Sunderland higher than they are now I'm sure, but it wouldn't of been 'pretty'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Exactly I will never forget how naive Poyet was against us, Gabby just nicking the ball off Cattermole as they tried to play from the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 To be fair I don't think the Sunderland fans had any pretensions of being some club with an history of free flowing one touch football. After Bruce, Di Canio and O'neill they were probably quite used to being a long ball team I'm sure Poyet would have been seen as the antidote to that and I think fans of most clubs would have prefered Poyet to Pullis such was Pullis's reputation for an unattractive game at Stoke despite how well he did. I'm sure you're right. But I think for any of the clubs outside the top 8 or so should be happy with a Pullis or Allardyce. It might not be great to look at, but they get results and your team doesn't spend it's time fighting relegation. Which these days seems to be about the best the rest of us can hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Eh I don't know, the issue with pulis and allardyce (minus pulis at Bolton and somewhat big Sam at rovers) is that their transfer policy is so limited that they can leave a MON type situation when they leave. I remember last year hearing how stoke had no squad player under 24 before butland and arrived. They're both very good short term fixes, or if you had a director of football for transfers (as palace sort of have) but otherwise they'll leave the club in questionable shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Poyets record doesn't seem that dissimilar to Martinez at one point to be fair. No club has stayed up after starting with 1 from 8, so he was in a brutal spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 If Lambert was to leave and we had a choice of Poyet or Pullis I'd still go for Poyet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Eh I don't know, the issue with pulis and allardyce (minus pulis at Bolton and somewhat big Sam at rovers) is that their transfer policy is so limited that they can leave a MON type situation when they leave. I remember last year hearing how stoke had no squad player under 24 before butland and arrived. They're both very good short term fixes, or if you had a director of football for transfers (as palace sort of have) but otherwise they'll leave the club in questionable shape. I'm not sure how many clubs Allardyce has left in questionable shape. His record is excellent, and generally clubs such as Bolton and Blackburn have gone downhill when he leaves because they employ someone with nothing like his ability (eg Sammy Lee, Gary Megson, Steve Kean). He joined Bolton when they were in the Championship, and left them after four consecutive top 10 PL finishes. I think most clubs would take that kind of "questionable shape"! As for Pulis (who was never at Bolton)... took over Stoke as a poor championship side, left them as an established Premier League side, and even Mark Hughes hasn't been able to bugger up all his good work. Again, I can't see how short-term fix or a questionable shape applies to Stoke, and certainly not in comparison to the likes of Sunderland, Cardiff and Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 If Lambert was to leave and we had a choice of Poyet or Pullis I'd still go for Poyet. Interesting article here on Poyet http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/apr/08/sunderland-fulham-managerial-changes-premier-league-relegation-ellis-short-steve-mcclaren I suspect you know what you're gonna get with Pulis, with Poyet I get the feeling it could easily go dramatically either way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 You don't get extra points for playing nice football, i couldn't give a toss what style of football we play so long as we get results with it, under MON we were a long ball side but it got results, no one really complained about the style of football because it worked for us, for that reason alone houllier was the wrong appointment for us because he played a totally different style and ended up pissing the players off. Sunderland have done exactly the same thing as us, hired a manager and made him overhaul the squad, but 14 players in 1 window was always going to be difficult to make work and its turned into a disaster that was going to need a miracle to turn round. Im not a fan of poyet, he seems to be a petulant man who sulks when things don't go his way, but he isn't to blame for taking them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2014 If Lambert was to leave and we had a choice of Poyet or Pullis I'd still go for Poyet. The username was a hint but this just goes and confirms it for me... you are Randy Lerner or Paul Faulkner aren't you? I claim my £5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I think there is a difference between the average long ball manager and the way Pullis had Stoke City playing that was on whole different level to anything I've seen the likes of Allardyce or O'neill serve up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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