Rugby: General Chat

[one_ian_taylor]

I'm  hoping NZ win the final - they play such quick,  dynamic rugby, it's  a joy to  watch. I know Argentina weren't  great  on Friday, but NZ looked almost supernaturally sharp.  Their maul  defence and scrum was also impressive and a little surprising against  a team like Argentina 

[sheepyvillian]

23 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said:

Oh, I agree  with you there and about England's style generally. Part of that came down to botching the couple of decent visits to SA's 22. I just disagree that SA looked braver and more proactive.  They  had one decent chance, which  they converted,  but it was also set up by some very pragmatic rugby - set piece and kicking.  At the end of it all, it wasn't  much more than SA just about managing to out England-England  in the second half

I think SA wanted to be more adventurous than England, but we nullified them for most of the game. They had one decent chance, we never once looked like even wanting to score a try. Look at their game with France , they were superb, had that been us against France, we would no doubt have resorted to the same risk - free rugby. I was as gutted as anyone else, but we were just far too cautious and it cost us at the end.

[sheepyvillian]

16 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said:

I'm  hoping NZ win the final - they play such quick,  dynamic rugby, it's  a joy to  watch. I know Argentina weren't  great  on Friday, but NZ looked almost supernaturally sharp.  Their maul  defence and scrum was also impressive and a little surprising against  a team like Argentina 

A game for the ages, I hope. 

[one_ian_taylor]

4 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

I think SA wanted to be more adventurous than England, but we nullified them for most of the game. They had one decent chance, we never once looked like even wanting to score a try. Look at their game with France , they were superb, had that been us against France, we would no doubt have resorted to the same risk - free rugby. I was as gutted as anyone else, but we were just far too cautious and it cost us at the end.

Across the tournament, 100%. And had it been France as well, I agree. But I don't  think it was being too cautious that cost England last night - conditions also suited the way England wanted to play, which was a very typically English  was of playing high percentage  rugby. For this England squad, I'm  not sure there was an alternative - was the right way to play that opposition and those conditions, and it very  nearly  came off. I'd  much rather  England played more expansive rugby - but I've  also enjoyed many very typically  English performances like this  over the years - it's  very satisfying when it comes off - semi finals in 2003 and 2007, Argentina in the pool stages this year e.g.

[mikeyp102]

Gutted we lost but proud that we raised our game. SA had to fight so hard to get through. 
 

We’ll see some players retire from England now and some in the next couple of years. Some need to go now, some a shame.

What will be the biggest factor affecting England, player wise, is that some good players (Marchant, Arundell to name a few) are going to be banned from playing for England as they are based in France. I really don’t get it, they will be playing at a good standard and will develop so much. Yes there is the lack of player release, but surely you can mitigate that.

Edited October 22, 2023 by mikeyp102

[sheepyvillian]

Just now, one_ian_taylor said:

Across the tournament, 100%. And had it been France as well, I agree. But I don't  think it was being too cautious that cost England last night - conditions also suited the way England wanted to play, which was a very typically English  was of playing high percentage  rugby. For this England squad, I'm  not sure there was an alternative - was the right way to play that opposition and those conditions, and it very  nearly  came off. I'd  much rather  England played more expansive rugby - but I've  also enjoyed many very typically  English performances like this  over the years - it's  very satisfying when it comes off - semi finals in 2003 and 2007, Argentina in the pool stages this year e.g.

Time to move on, I'm afraid. I doubt very it will happen with Borthwick as coach. 

[luckyeddie]

3 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

I dunno. I don’t think it’s necessarily good to clear out older players en-masse because if it means we have a couple of years of disastrous performances it’s arguably worse for young players’ development than being introduced into a winning team that performs well on the pitch.

I think there needs to be recognition we need to move on from our older players, but in the form of an organised phase-out (perhaps over a year or two) rather than mass cull.

The Tour from Hell in 1998 to SA was the beginning of our journey to winning the WC. It was tough but blooded some talent. I believe we are going to lose more than we win against Tier 1 teams in the couple of few years, so I would rather do it blooding new talent, than wheeling out the same old predictable corpses.

Also, I would like to change the negative attitude. We pick wingers because of their kick chase ability rather than their ability to beat a man. This attitude throughout the team makes us dull. Pick Marcus Smith, give him a big crash ball 12 (like Bundi Aki) and allow some talented backs to play exciting rugby off that solid base.

Borthwick won't do this and we will see Youngs box kicking for May to chase for another couple of years.

[luckyeddie]

1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

You’re exaggerating a bit though. You claimed we’d played that way since Woodward but at the last World Cup we looked pretty dangerous in attack and even blew away the All Blacks in the semis with multiple tries. South Africa then absolutely humiliated us in the finals.

True. Under a foreign coach. Any English coach will probably drag us back to pragmatic dull rugby. We have played forward orientated rugby for as long as I can remember. That said we are the most successful Northern Hemisphere side by a considerable distance.

[sheepyvillian]

15 minutes ago, luckyeddie said:

True. Under a foreign coach. Any English coach will probably drag us back to pragmatic dull rugby. We have played forward orientated rugby for as long as I can remember. That said we are the most successful Northern Hemisphere side by a considerable distance.

I wonder how Farrell or Edwards would fare as England coaches?

[luckyeddie]

17 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

I wonder how Farrell or Edwards would fare as England coaches?

I think they would be excellent, but I don't think the suits at England Rugby would hire them. They would probably see it as embarrassing to be be lead by two ex Rugby League legends.

[luckyeddie]

SA potentially could lose their only recognized hooker due to racially abusing Tom Curry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67185493

Quote

Curry approached referee Ben O'Keeffe about half an hour into the match, reported the alleged comment and asked what he should do in response

 

[foreveryoung]

Gotta love Marler. 

 

[sheepyvillian]

33 minutes ago, luckyeddie said:

I think they would be excellent, but I don't think the suits at England Rugby would hire them. They would probably see it as embarrassing to be be lead by two ex Rugby League legends.

At least the cricket big - wigs had the sense to make a change for progress, look how that's worked out in test cricket.

[Zatman]

World Rugby have announced they are expanding the next World Cup to 24 teams and seems they will launch a Nations League type tournament in 2026

[luckyeddie]

39 minutes ago, Zatman said:

World Rugby have announced they are expanding the next World Cup to 24 teams and seems they will launch a Nations League type tournament in 2026

I guess that's one less group game and one more knockout round if it's six groups of four.

[JB]

England trying their best to try to remove any semblance of enjoyment for the spectators. 

Just utterly, utterly dire, turgid stuff. 

[one_ian_taylor]

On 24/10/2023 at 20:23, luckyeddie said:

I guess that's one less group game and one more knockout round if it's six groups of four.

That's  what I read - means a shorter tournamentz, as although it's  the same number of games  to win the thing, you don't  have each team sitting out a week during the groups. Would be same format as pre 1998 football  WCs I think. 

 

Also read the draw for the groups will be closer to the tournament, so should better reflect actual  world rankings.  

Edited October 27, 2023 by one_ian_taylor

[luckyeddie]

7 hours ago, one_ian_taylor said:

That's  what I read - means a shorter tournamentz, as although it's  the same number of games  to win the thing, you don't  have each team sitting out a week during the groups. Would be same format as pre 1998 football  WCs I think. 

 

Also read the draw for the groups will be closer to the tournament, so should better reflect actual  world rankings.  

That should make it better and bringing in a couple of lower tier sides will be good for the expansion of the game. Plus Ireland might actually win a knock out game.

[Dale]

On 22/10/2023 at 14:55, luckyeddie said:

SA potentially could lose their only recognized hooker due to racially abusing Tom Curry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67185493

 

It's abuse, but racist abuse nah. There is no hurtful context that goes with the inverse. Tom Curry needs to get a **** grip, with this sort of attitude I'm not super surprised that half the England team refused to take a knee. 

[theboyangel]

The cynic in me was not surprised nothing was done about it due to the player being the only available hooker in the RSA team and a ban would mean they'd have a WC final with uncontested scrums, which would pretty much ruin the spectacle. 

The hearing was over very quickly and never required Curry to provide his account.