Con Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs has also retired from playing. 13 Premier Leagues 4 FA Cups 4 League Cups 2 Champions Leagues 9 Community Shields 1 Fifa World Club Cup 1 European Super Cup 1 Intercontinental cup 953 games for United and 168 goals. 64 games for Wales and 12 goals. Quite a record. Giggs played in a good team. Would he get on Pele's all time great lists? While he was fast and had good dribbling skills through-out his 20s he lacked finishing and his crossing was pretty woeful - at least compared to Beckham. If he was in any team other than Man Utd his goal-scoring and assists would be right down. To his credit in his 30s he actually continued to improve - his passing range got better and proved able to play in centre of midfield on occasion. He was also an able team leader and in terms of training and fitness a model professional. Overall, world class-ish, but if he got an injury at 30 and had to retire we probably wouldn't put him in the same bracket as say Beckham, which would we do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) Giggs has also retired from playing. 13 Premier Leagues 4 FA Cups 4 League Cups 2 Champions Leagues 9 Community Shields 1 Fifa World Club Cup 1 European Super Cup 1 Intercontinental cup 953 games for United and 168 goals. 64 games for Wales and 12 goals. Quite a record. Giggs played in a good team. Would he get on Pele's all time great lists? While he was fast and had good dribbling skills through-out his 20s he lacked finishing and his crossing was pretty woeful - at least compared to Beckham. If he was in any team other than Man Utd his goal-scoring and assists would be right down. To his credit in his 30s he actually continued to improve - his passing range got better and proved able to play in centre of midfield on occasion. He was also an able team leader and in terms of training and fitness a model professional. Overall, world class-ish, but if he got an injury at 30 and had to retire we probably wouldn't put him in the same bracket as say Beckham, which would we do now. Giggs has been a much better player than Beckham throughout his career. Edited May 19, 2014 by Avfc96 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) Giggs has also retired from playing. 13 Premier Leagues 4 FA Cups 4 League Cups 2 Champions Leagues 9 Community Shields 1 Fifa World Club Cup 1 European Super Cup 1 Intercontinental cup 953 games for United and 168 goals. 64 games for Wales and 12 goals. Quite a record. Giggs played in a good team. Would he get on Pele's all time great lists? While he was fast and had good dribbling skills through-out his 20s he lacked finishing and his crossing was pretty woeful - at least compared to Beckham. If he was in any team other than Man Utd his goal-scoring and assists would be right down. To his credit in his 30s he actually continued to improve - his passing range got better and proved able to play in centre of midfield on occasion. He was also an able team leader and in terms of training and fitness a model professional. Overall, world class-ish, but if he got an injury at 30 and had to retire we probably wouldn't put him in the same bracket as say Beckham, which would we do now. Your whole post revolves around the word 'if'. If he hadn't played for a good team like Manchester United....., if he had had a serious injury and had to retire...... We can only judge things on what actually happened, not what have happened 'if'. Secondly Pele may have been a great player, but there is a famous saying in Brazil which goes 'Pele is a poet when he keeps his mouth closed'. Basically Pele has a tendancy to talk out of his behind. So whether or not Giggs makes Pele's all time greatest list is not valid. Edited May 19, 2014 by Voinjama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs has also retired from playing. 13 Premier Leagues 4 FA Cups 4 League Cups 2 Champions Leagues 9 Community Shields 1 Fifa World Club Cup 1 European Super Cup 1 Intercontinental cup 953 games for United and 168 goals. 64 games for Wales and 12 goals. Quite a record. Giggs played in a good team. Would he get on Pele's all time great lists? While he was fast and had good dribbling skills through-out his 20s he lacked finishing and his crossing was pretty woeful - at least compared to Beckham. If he was in any team other than Man Utd his goal-scoring and assists would be right down. To his credit in his 30s he actually continued to improve - his passing range got better and proved able to play in centre of midfield on occasion. He was also an able team leader and in terms of training and fitness a model professional. Overall, world class-ish, but if he got an injury at 30 and had to retire we probably wouldn't put him in the same bracket as say Beckham, which would we do now. The same Pele that called Nicky Butt the best player at the 02 World Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs has also retired from playing. 13 Premier Leagues 4 FA Cups 4 League Cups 2 Champions Leagues 9 Community Shields 1 Fifa World Club Cup 1 European Super Cup 1 Intercontinental cup 953 games for United and 168 goals. 64 games for Wales and 12 goals. Quite a record. Giggs played in a good team. Would he get on Pele's all time great lists? While he was fast and had good dribbling skills through-out his 20s he lacked finishing and his crossing was pretty woeful - at least compared to Beckham. If he was in any team other than Man Utd his goal-scoring and assists would be right down. To his credit in his 30s he actually continued to improve - his passing range got better and proved able to play in centre of midfield on occasion. He was also an able team leader and in terms of training and fitness a model professional. Overall, world class-ish, but if he got an injury at 30 and had to retire we probably wouldn't put him in the same bracket as say Beckham, which would we do now. Yeah and if he hadn't have been born then he wouldn't have won all those honours Giggs was one of the finest players Great Britain has ever produced. He was sensational as a teenager, got better in his twenties and adapted his style when he lost his electric pace. One of the modern greats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Made me laugh last season seeing him still outpace young lads, the guy treats his body like a temple. Weird to see him retire, he has literally played for United my entire life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Pele's 100 greatest player list is as laughable as FIFA rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 His finest moment? Back when semi finals were held at club stadiums (like they should be!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 But how many 'Premier League Team of the Year's has he been in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I think 2, but might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 What were his "Key Pass" stats like? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time. From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season. In comparison, Beckham scored on average 8 goals per season. When Ronaldo arrived at Old Trafford he blew Giggs out the water. Bale is much better now than Giggs ever was. If his career ended at 30 - which it didn't partly because he was a great athlete - he would be remembered for a couple of great seasons early in his twenties then lack of end product. As I said before, doesn't mean he's not world class-ish. He adapted his game. He had various other in-demand qualities to make up for his lack of end product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 If we ignore half of his career, his career wouldn't seem so impressive? No shit. With observations like that you ought to be on ITV's pundit list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 BTW my goal stats Beckham vs Giggs were for the Premier League only. If we ignore half of his career, his career wouldn't seem so impressive? No shit. With observations like that you ought to be on ITV's pundit list. He got found out early and wasn't the same player. How do you go from 11 and 13 goals a season as a 20/22 year old to 5-6, or half the amount? Stayed at Man Utd riding the coattails of the Fergie Years. Took the easy option without the challenge of a new team in a better league. His 30s were the years I most appreciated Giggs as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time. From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season. Not that it's worth bothering to argue, but between from 1993 to 2006 I make it nine goals per season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time. From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season. Not that it's worth bothering to argue, but between from 1993 to 2006 I make it nine goals per season. Premier League only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time. From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season. Not that it's worth bothering to argue, but between from 1993 to 2006 I make it nine goals per season. Premier League only. Any particular reason? Presumably we're not counting his non-Premier League trophies then either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time. From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season. Not that it's worth bothering to argue, but between from 1993 to 2006 I make it nine goals per season. Premier League only. Any particular reason? Presumably we're not counting his non-Premier League trophies then either? Premier League only is a fair comparison. If Giggs gets all the credit for the trophies, where does Fergie come in? Giggs was a bit-part player. That doesn't mean he won't be a great manager. Just remember when Ronaldo came on the scene thinking that Giggs was actually pretty shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Surely Giggs' longevity has to be factored in? To play at the top level for as long as he did is quite an achievement and something more talented players were not able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Surely Giggs' longevity has to be factored in? To play at the top level for as long as he did is quite an achievement and something more talented players were not able to do. That's what I do. If you end his career at 30 it's a great career but not in the world class bracket. His 30s were years when he actually managed to improve as a player, as well as stay fit. In this and only this sense he was a model professional. World class-ish. Lacked a bit of something to be truly world class but had more than enough to separate himself from the ordinary Man Utd player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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