Bolitics UKIP Nutters

[snowychap]

Farage is a far more effective politician than either Milliband or Cameron, and he will make as much of his party's brief time in the limelight as he can.

I'm not sure that makes him a more effective 'politician', though.

More effective at squeezing the juice out of what he can get selling his party to the electorate like a second hand car salesman might sell a cut and shut, perhaps.

What's he really done as an MEP in the years that he has been one? He got some vote about Barroso (so I've just read) and he insulted Van Rompuy.

I'm not saying Cameron and Miliband are any more effective but I think people are building up Mr for Raj a little too far.

[Eames]

Farage is a salesman -a sinister and yet a very good one.

 

What he sells is a 1950s vision of England. Jam sandwiches on the green, johnny foreigner comfortably at arms length and a nation populated by people just like you. If he was a television channel he'd be Dave or Yesterday. Populated solely by entities that don't exist anymore. Obselete and aging badly.

 

His statements towards Europe are shortsighted and xenophobic appealing to a slightly better class of Little Englander than the BNP manage to.

 

He is a man devoid of policy beyond "say no to this" and "stand up to that".

 

He is not a force that must be stopped, rather than a self agrandising weasel that should simply be ignored.

[PaulC]

People are just fed up of the bullshit from the main parties. Last nights results is a wake-up call that they cannot be so flippant in their disregard of Ukip. They may not win a general election but they could hold the balance of power.

A lot depends on the state of the country in 2 years time. If austerity continues and unemployment is high. Growth is still flatlining, the debt up to 1.7 trillion nobody will trust the Tories or labour to get us out if this mess. People will make a protest vote. So they ate a danger. You can't just ignore then and hope they go away

Edited May 3, 2013 by PaulC

[Seat68]

Farage is a salesman -a sinister and yet a very good one.

 

What he sells is a 1950s vision of England. Jam sandwiches on the green, johnny foreigner comfortably at arms length and a nation populated by people just like you. If he was a television channel he'd be Dave or Yesterday. Populated solely by entities that don't exist anymore. Obselete and aging badly.

 

His statements towards Europe are shortsighted and xenophobic appealing to a slightly better class of Little Englander than the BNP manage to.

 

He is a man devoid of policy beyond "say no to this" and "stand up to that".

 

He is not a force that must be stopped, rather than a self agrandising weasel that should simply be ignored.

 

A part of me wants this **** elected in 2015 so the people that vote for them look back and say hold on, you have no policies at all and the flimsy shit you call a manifesto is completely undeliverable. We has been duped!!

[peterms]

Interesting result from David Cameron's constituency.

 

 

[PaulC]

Yes although I hate the far right part of me wants them to win just to shake up our political system a but. farage is dangerous because he has more charisma, personality than Cameron or milliband and is plain talking which appeals to voters. Also he has more credibility had he has run successful businesses whereas the other two have never had a job and are far removed from the reality of the real world

Edited May 3, 2013 by PaulC

[Seat68]

Yes although I hate the far right part of me wants them to win just to shake up our political system a but. farage is dangerous because he has more charisma, personality than Cameron or milliband and is plain talking which appeals to voters. Also he had more credibility had he had run successful businesses whereas the other two have never had a job and are far removed from the reality of the real world

I agree with alot of this and that is his appeal I think. He doesnt really spin anything and voters like that, some voters.

[snowychap]

People are just fed up of the bullshit from the main parties. Last nights results is a wake-up call that they cannot be so flippant in their disregard of Ukip. They may not win a general election but they could hold the balance of power.

People have largely been fed up of their bullshit for a fair old while, though.

I can't see there being any wake up call for anyone because it would take something utterly astounding for UKIp to hold the balance of power. They would need to convert the kind of polling that they may get in opinion polls or local and european elections in to obtaining what? twenty or thirty parliamentary constituencies or more. That takes much more than just good poll numbers (or even nationwide percentage of the popular vote) as the SDP, Liberals, Lib Dems and Greens have all found out in their time.

[Awol]

Interesting result from David Cameron's constituency.

Bloody Tories splitting the UKIP vote..

[PaulC]

 

People are just fed up of the bullshit from the main parties. Last nights results is a wake-up call that they cannot be so flippant in their disregard of Ukip. They may not win a general election but they could hold the balance of power.

People have largely been fed up of their bullshit for a fair old while, though.

I can't see there being any wake up call for anyone because it would take something utterly astounding for UKIp to hold the balance of power. They would need to convert the kind of polling that they may get in opinion polls or local and european elections in to obtaining what? twenty or thirty parliamentary constituencies or more. That takes much more than just good poll numbers (or even nationwide percentage of the popular vote) as the SDP, Liberals, Lib Dems and Greens have all found out in their time.

 

 

 

Very true, but we never had such cause to vote against the main parties have we?

[drat01]

 

 

People are just fed up of the bullshit from the main parties. Last nights results is a wake-up call that they cannot be so flippant in their disregard of Ukip. They may not win a general election but they could hold the balance of power.

People have largely been fed up of their bullshit for a fair old while, though.

I can't see there being any wake up call for anyone because it would take something utterly astounding for UKIp to hold the balance of power. They would need to convert the kind of polling that they may get in opinion polls or local and european elections in to obtaining what? twenty or thirty parliamentary constituencies or more. That takes much more than just good poll numbers (or even nationwide percentage of the popular vote) as the SDP, Liberals, Lib Dems and Greens have all found out in their time.

 

 

 

Very true, but we never had such cause to vote against the main parties have we?

 

Being of a certain age I can remember  a sort of similar situation that happened previously with the SDP and Labour. The formation of the SDP caused a lot of split votes which certainly hit Labour and caused various rethinks. The SDP bandwagon though seemed to run out of steam when challenged on a lot of issues and their only way was a merge with the Libs to form the party that Clegg is shafting at the moment. 

 

UKIP are certainly stealing votes primarily from the Tories. Last nights elections were primarily in Tory heartlands and the fact that winners were Labour and UKIP shows what impacts they are having attacking the party that should be their allies. The problem is the extreme views of the UKIP candidates basically are what most Tories would like to say but are afraid to do so and there is a total mess happening as to what either the UKIP parties and Tories actually stand for to cater for Right wing voters

[PaulC]

Yes its certainly shaken the Tory party up, because all they had to worry about before was the centre ground, now they have to worry about the right. Lazy disrespectful comments from Cameron does not help either.

[drat01]

I am no fan of Cameron and certainly no fan of Farage or UKIP at all, so I find it even more interesting to see the "siblings" fight like this, especially with Cuckold Clegg looking at his own party and wondering why it's been so royally screwed now it struggles to beat MonsterRavingLooney

 

As this thread has shown though UKIP has more than a fair share of what most reasonable people would deem to be as extremists or questionable views at best. Add to that lack of real policies on matters that concern away from the headline grabbers they keep beating on about show them to be nowhere near a political party that should be touching Gvmt (ooo eerrr missus). I actually agreed with that idiot Shapps earlier when he was asking UKIP to explain views on things like High Speed rail networks etc, the answers were nowhere to be found and anything that had previously been said totally contradicted manifesto's etc

 

In addition to agreeing with Shapps I also agreed with Eames in this thread, the world is certainly a strange place today :-)

[PauloBarnesi]

I wonder which way the dockers would go?

[drat01]

I wonder which way the dockers would go?

Never been as popular as work gear as they are in North America .....

[villaajax]

As someone pointed out on the BBC website I think, what do UKIP voters expect this one dimensional anti-EU party to actually do at local level?

 

Still, 291 Labour gains today, lots in strong Tory areas. Although my Labour votes didn't get far in my town, at least both Torys lost out.

[drat01]

Derbyshire is now Labour :-)

[Chindie]

As someone pointed out on the BBC website I think, what do UKIP voters expect this one dimensional anti-EU party to actually do at local level?

Nothing. People aren't voting for them because they desperately want UKIP councils. They're doing what people tend top do in council elections midterm for a government - giving the governing party a kicking.

It's been particularly effective this time because the government is flagging, and UKIP peddle the line that always happens when things go bad, as well as tapping into the tabloid media 'bloody EU'/poor EU image and news recently. Its just the ultimate **** protest vote, which will alter the rhetoric for a while from government and make the Tories sweat, just a little.

[peterms]

Add to that lack of real policies on matters that concern away from the headline grabbers they keep beating on about show them to be nowhere near a political party that should be touching Gvmt (ooo eerrr missus). I actually agreed with that idiot Shapps earlier when he was asking UKIP to explain views on things like High Speed rail networks etc, the answers were nowhere to be found and anything that had previously been said totally contradicted manifesto's etc

 

It's not about policies, for the larger number of Ukip voters.  Shapps is looking in the wrong place.  This guy is closer to the mark:

 

...So what is behind the UKIP appeal?  I believe it is an expression of something much deeper than the policies it is championing that binds them together.  Something that has been incubating over the last decade. A deep, inchoate sense of betrayal by ordinary mainstream British voters that the political establishment in London, not just Europe, has been looking after itself more than the people who put it there. A deep sense that, in politics, banking, the media, and seemingly across the board of modern Britain, the elites at the top have been spending too much time enjoying each other's company, at the expense of looking after those at the bottom of the pyramid that put them there.  It's fundamentally about values, rather than policies. The British people are developing a deep, visceral but quiet anger at what is coming to be seen as the betrayal of ordinary people - and the values they expect and aspire to be governed through - by increasingly unaccountable elites...

 

 

As well as that alienation, there is a strong strand of intolerance among Ukip supporters, suspicion, a generalised resentment associated with people they think responsible for them struggling financially.  This tends to express itself not in hostility to the wealthiest who are sucking in all the money, but at the people who are more visible.  This ranges from the end of the Ukip spectrum which overlaps with hardcore racists and thugs like the BNP and EDL, to the more respectable ones who would disapprove of overt racism but still feel uneasy and resentful that someone from a different country or race has somehow deprived them of something.

 

So there is hostility to and disapproval of the political elite, more than the financial elite, a tendency towards social conservatism and even authoritarianism, and perhaps a wish to lash out in some way.  If Shapps thinks that responses on a policy level or bringing forward a Euro referendum will do the trick, he's probably looking in the wrong place.

[drat01]

I agree with that Peter, it's just that now as per Shapps comment there will be a greater scrutiny of UKIP and what they really stand for. You get the feeling that for the Tory party they always just saw them as their "chav" cousins and did little to really expose what they were like. Now they are stealing from them they will use the full power of the media that support them etc to make sure that the dirt that is obviously there oozes out for all to see. Many of the centre and left have realised the xenophobic at best, overtly racist at worst thinking from within the UKIP following, and this thread while light-hearted shows that to have a fair degree of truth.

 

For the Tory party they are in a no win situation re UKIP as it exposes Cameron et al to the wrath of the right of the party, while those more moderate Tory supporters are unhappy apparently as the leadership have not dealt with the loss of votes etc. I wonder if UKIP will be just another nail in the rapidly closing coffin of Cameron's failed leadership?

 

Expect though in the next few months some juicy exposes in the media for senior UKIP members ......