peterms Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 It's a statement of the views of the country. What is? No one can say with any certainty they know the views of the country, and both sides should stop the assumption they are. A state funeral is. If it had been a private affair, at no cost to the taxpayer (like, say, Michael Foot's) then it's no concern of mine or anyone else's what they do, or what fantastical claims they make about the virtues of the person concerned. Making the event into a state funeral (we are told it is technically not one, but in practice will be indistinguishable from one), for a figure who was not a head of state (though seemed to think herself as one), is a deeply political, and extremely unwise, effort to portray Thatcher as a state figure somehow above politics. Which is why people are saying "not in my name". The idea of saying that in respect of a private ceremony would be daft, because there would be no suggestion at all that the event reflected the views of the nation. And that's also why simply staying away, remaining silent, going along with the lie that this ceremony represents the nation, is unacceptable to many. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Some ideas for CI: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 It's a statement of the views of the country. What is? No one can say with any certainty they know the views of the country, and both sides should stop the assumption they are. A state funeral is. If it had been a private affair, at no cost to the taxpayer (like, say, Michael Foot's) then it's no concern of mine or anyone else's what they do, or what fantastical claims they make about the virtues of the person concerned. Making the event into a state funeral (we are told it is technically not one, but in practice will be indistinguishable from one), for a figure who was not a head of state (though seemed to think herself as one), is a deeply political, and extremely unwise, effort to portray Thatcher as a state figure somehow above politics. Which is why people are saying "not in my name". The idea of saying that in respect of a private ceremony would be daft, because there would be no suggestion at all that the event reflected the views of the nation. And that's also why simply staying away, remaining silent, going along with the lie that this ceremony represents the nation, is unacceptable to many. Unfortunately so many things in a democracy are done “not in my name”, but as I ve said no one ascertain what the people’s will is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 So putting politics aside, do you think that protesting at a ceremony to lay someone to rest is acceptable? Clearly some posters on here do but I'd be interested in hearing a straight answer from you on that point, please. But to ram it down the throats of all the millions she did down in this way, making out she's some sort of hero and we should all mourn her, is both ludicrous and more to the point deeply offensive. I have no problem at all with people demonstrating against this part of it. Please don't shoot me. As others have rightly contributed regarding "Ding Dong the witch is dead", no one is being forced to watch, no one is being forced to participate, so if you don't like it, don't participate in it. Let's not pretend that the anti-Thatcher view is the only one in the country. In a post I made earlier in the thread (according to the Guardian) more people think she was good for the country than bad. So, respecting the view of the majority what is the harm in spending the same on a good send off for a politically giant figure as it has cost the country to house that barsteward Abu Qatada? So now your "justification" for the costs and the disruption is because of Abu? Are you serious? I don't need to justify anything, it wasn't my decision. Merely pointing out the hypocrisy of you and other posters (and before you cry 'personal abuse' note your description above of those who disagree with your view as being deluded and foolish). On one hand you suggest that those who get all upset about the "charts" really need to get over it (and you're right, they should) but then her detractors wail like little girls about 10 million quid over a funeral for someone who, according to the polls, garners more respect than hatred in the population at large. We get it, you didn't like her, fair play to you. What you and others seem incapable of recognising is that many more people thought she was bloody good for the country and are happy for her memory to be honoured in this way. Don't like it? Easy solution, ignore it. Ultimately those against her have had every opportunity to say their piece, which being a staunch defender of UK democracy Thatcher would have whole heartedly approved of. My personal opinion, which isn't worth any more than anyone else's, is that to protest at a funeral betrays a lack of common decency which does otherwise civilised men no credit whatsoever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutherland Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Speaking ill of the dead just dont seem right imo. The lady in question has been in and out of the lime light for the last 40 odd years be it wrong or right reasons. Speak about it at the time not when there dead i say! Edited April 14, 2013 by sutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I do remember the troubles Paolo , I have vivid flashbacks still of that day them 2 off duty army blokes got lynched. Sickening that was and all caught on tv. Think that was on John Majors watch though rather than Maggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 It was in 1988. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I remember going to watch villa away at plough lane a day or so after it happened , I felt numb at the game a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Awol with all due respect your argument just doesn't make any sense. The outrage some have and are still showing re that song etc has no relevance to the obscene costs and the fanfare that some are putting on the whole event. The way you put it seems as though one is a justification for the other. You still fail to see the very relevant points that peter has explained very well and have been the basis for real anger of a lot of people here in the uk. The burying of heads in the sand to the hypocrisy of the whole event, the political undertones to it all and the fact that so many have raised real and serious objections to it are very apparent. You say ignore it, but how can I when as said they are paying out an obscene amount of direct money on it, affection many thousands if not millions in London and the media is plastered with it all. Lastly i still maintain that your thinking about validity and decency of protesting has not taken into account all that this is no funeral as most people know it, its a political statement and exploitation of all that goes with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted April 14, 2013 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2013 No one can say with any certainty they know the views of the country, and both sides should stop the assumption they are.... so many things in a democracy are done “not in my name”, but as I ve said no one ascertain what the people’s will is.absolutely. The established convention, plus a thatchers own wishes all say "private funeral". The people seeking to have something more than that are out of order, completely. As AWOL said, protesting at a family funeral is plain wrong. By going ahead with an overblown glorification of Thatcher, and Thatcherism,the military carrying her coffin down the Mall, St. Paul's Cathedral and all that, the. Tories are going against the wishes of thatcher, going against established tradition, going against the will of a large swathe of the country for their own ends. It's disgraceful. I expect people will protest peacefully, a few divots may do minor disorder or vandalism and then the Tories will try and make further play out of that. Even when she's gone. She's divisive, expensive, overly lauded, and a blooming menace to peaceful and generous society 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'm actually listening to the chart show to hear what happens... listening to Radio 1 makes me feel dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Are Heart, Kiss, Capital etc playing it in full ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 No one can say with any certainty they know the views of the country, and both sides should stop the assumption they are.... so many things in a democracy are done “not in my name”, but as I ve said no one ascertain what the people’s will is. absolutely. The established convention, plus a thatchers own wishes all say "private funeral". The people seeking to have something more than that are out of order, completely. As AWOL said, protesting at a family funeral is plain wrong. By going ahead with an overblown glorification of Thatcher, and Thatcherism,the military carrying her coffin down the Mall, St. Paul's Cathedral and all that, the. Tories are going against the wishes of thatcher, going against established tradition, going against the will of a large swathe of the country for their own ends. It's disgraceful. I expect people will protest peacefully, a few divots may do minor disorder or vandalism and then the Tories will try and make further play out of that. Even when she's gone. She's divisive, expensive, overly lauded, and a blooming menace to peaceful and generous society Not sure AWOL is actually saying that though Pete - apologies to him if I have misunderstood his posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Are Heart, Kiss, Capital etc playing it in full ?? Good question! I don't know. Hopefully they'll have more guts than the BBC, which isn't much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 BBC seems to have time to play some song that apparently isn't even in the charts and a whole long interview / introduction to it beforehand. Tactically wasting time in order not to play the full song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Ugh, Radio 1.They could play the sounds of Zooey Deschanel being pleasured and I'd give it miss. Edited April 14, 2013 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Ugh, Radio 1.They could play the sounds of Zooey Deschanel being pleasured and I'd give it miss. I know what you mean, I can actually feel my brain haemorrhaging listening to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 'Pitbull' has just been described as a "modern day Shakespeare" ... I don't think she was even joking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 14, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 14, 2013 Sorry ,then. To clarify, AWOL said only a nobber would protest at a funeral (I paraphrase). The rest is my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Sorry ,then. To clarify, AWOL said only a nobber would protest at a funeral (I paraphrase). The rest is my thoughts. Word of the day that Mr Bland ....... now how can I get that into my presentation for tomorrow Hmmmmmm ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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