The Randy Lerner thread

[darrenm]

Really, wtf are you talking about?

[Dodgyknees]

Really, wtf are you talking about?

The latest smurfs movie. Or perhaps Randy Lerner. Have a wild stab.

[TheDrums]

Lerner needs to sell up. An absolute joke of an owner.

Perhaps the venkeys could buy us.

Yes, lets bring up the very worst chairman in the league as an example of why Randy is good. Well done.

Now lets make a list of chairman who do a much better job and who don't screw up two sports clubs (and football club by spending too much like a little schoolboy on sweets trying to buy attention of the bullies around him to stop them beating him - and then when it doesn't work, selling his mums best jewellery to make up for it) and also a man who appoints one of the worst managers in the premier league last season, one who has relegated more clubs than any of our past 5 managers and one who has no idea how to set up a football team.

So yes, lets bring up venkeys and use them as a tool to beat people with who do not lick the PR off the current chairmans bollocks.

you have an Un-healthy obsession with me dodgy, posting in poster left right and centre.

So Lerner is a joke of a chairman, but not as much as a joke as an actual shit owner in the venkeys, oh ok. Typical VT depressive logic there..

Season ticket for many a yeah thank you TheDrums lower holte, enjoyed supporting villa when we were doing nothin, supposedly doing something under o'neill and back to doing nothing, couldn't afford it this year

I'll still enjoy it if we win the league or are relegated god forbid, whilst plenty of vt will witness the apocalypse unless PF is sacked along with our current manager and the second coming owner (with a self made fortune obviously) comes along and makes people feel important again.

Oh anyone can say Lower Holte. What seat did you sit at then?

[lp_villa830]

Lerner needs to sell up. An absolute joke of an owner.

Perhaps the venkeys could buy us.

Yes, lets bring up the very worst chairman in the league as an example of why Randy is good. Well done.

Now lets make a list of chairman who do a much better job and who don't screw up two sports clubs (and football club by spending too much like a little schoolboy on sweets trying to buy attention of the bullies around him to stop them beating him - and then when it doesn't work, selling his mums best jewellery to make up for it) and also a man who appoints one of the worst managers in the premier league last season, one who has relegated more clubs than any of our past 5 managers and one who has no idea how to set up a football team.

So yes, lets bring up venkeys and use them as a tool to beat people with who do not lick the PR off the current chairmans bollocks.

you have an Un-healthy obsession with me dodgy, posting in poster left right and centre.

So Lerner is a joke of a chairman, but not as much as a joke as an actual shit owner in the venkeys, oh ok. Typical VT depressive logic there..

Season ticket for many a yeah thank you TheDrums lower holte, enjoyed supporting villa when we were doing nothin, supposedly doing something under o'neill and back to doing nothing, couldn't afford it this year

I'll still enjoy it if we win the league or are relegated god forbid, whilst plenty of vt will witness the apocalypse unless PF is sacked along with our current manager and the second coming owner (with a self made fortune obviously) comes along and makes people feel important again.

Oh anyone can say Lower Holte. What seat did you sit at then?

Why should he have to prove to some random person that he goes to games or not?

[blandy]

Stay on topic, please. use pms for personal stuff, if you must. thanks

[Harry]

I'd say my only obsession is defending the fans from abuse which is not wanted or needed. You seem to think we want anybody but Lerner, not the case at all and most of us appreciate what he has done at the club but that does not make him the best man to take us forward.

So he is sat there protecting the future of our club by making cut backs to the wages and saving money. Who was it who invested all the money and took out a high rate loan from his own family and who then took that money back in lump sums at the same time we made around £20m in transfer fees?

Who also appointed a manager who has twice been relegated in England, once in Scotland and who also cost Rangers their annual spot in the top two some 10 years ago.

At least he is not Venkeys is exactly what is wrong...

At least Saddam was not Hitler... bet the Kurds loved that, of course the halabja poison gas attack is most certainly a crime not worthy of looking at as Hitler did worse.

At least David Cameron is not Thatcher.

At least Villa are not Leeds (although seeing as Randy studied them hard, you'd think he wanted us to be with the reckless way he handled the club and its finances)

So all hail Randy.

I don't think he has taken all the money back has he. I'm no apologist for Randy Lerner but if we are going to have a debate about money surely we should be looking at the net investment he has made since owning the club.

As for interest on loans those loans come from a family trust so I would very much doubt the Trustees would or could allow them to be interest free. I would not worry too much about that bit of the financing personally anyway as I suspect its tax based.

I agree the club needs to be run on more commercial lines which it clearly has not been for the past few years. Sadly for many fans Lerner has now become a bad owner just because he is trying to control costs in the club.

Having said all that I do think he has made a cataclysmic error in appointing such a poor manager. What fans wanted was someone to inspire them. Either an experienced name or better still for me at least a good young manager who could stay with the club a few years.

What we ended up with was an average / poor manager who will drive fans away. Hardly a great shout when we need to balance the books. The bit I just cannot get my head round is that all we could seemingly come up with as new managers were McLaren, Martinez and McLeish.

[TrentVilla]

Sadly for many fans Lerner has now become a bad owner just because he is trying to control costs in the club.

I'm really not sure about this, I've not seen that opinion expressed by anyone.

[Zatman]

Yes, lets bring up the very worst chairman in the league as an example of why Randy is good. Well done.

Now lets make a list of chairman who do a much better job

im interested in these better chairmen. would you prefer either of

Gaydamak

Venkys

Hicks and Gillett

Glazers

Roman(seen chelsea fans with banners asking him to sell up yesterday)

Ashley

Ray Ranson

[Mantis]

With regards to spending and cutting the wage bill I don't think Randy's done much wrong, it's his appointment of McLeish which is the real blunder.

[PhilGibson]

Besides controlling the financial side of a football club, the biggest decision any owner can make is who to appoint as manager, sadly at the moment his decision to appoint McLeish ahead of all conventional wisdom appears to be his biggest mistake so far. This is I feel why he is getting so much ire now, fans were still on his side during the Houiller reign because he gave him money in January (Bent and Makoun).

We pontificated for a long part of the summer over who to bring in as manager and we ended up with Alex McLeish. The fact that he came from Blues is largely irrelavant because what matters is what he does for us, we are currently playing turgid, lifeless football and as McLeish said earlier this week we are in transition, this gives the players and the manager an easy get out of jail card to play whenever the result does not go our way. The problem for me with McLeish is he simply sets his team out to not lose, there does not appear to be any hope this will change.

Whilst this all going on and we sold Young and Downing in the summer the owner will face the fans frustrations. I am sure if you asked a fan of Cleveland Browns they would say very much the same as us, Randy does not appoint well when it comes to who he hires.

[TrentVilla]

With regards to spending and cutting the wage bill I don't think Randy's done much wrong, it's his appointment of McLeish which is the real blunder.

Randy's mistake in relation to spending and cuts was allowing it to get so out of control in the first place. Having done so though he is right to address it even if he is doing it too late and in a way that is harmful to both the team, the club and ironically the revenue.

His mistakes are far more than simply appointing McLeish a mistake which was only required due to his previous mistake of appointing Houllier.

[Zatman]

Randy's mistake in relation to spending and cuts was allowing it to get so out of control in the first place. Having done so though he is right to address it even if he is doing it too late and in a way that is harmful to both the team, the club and ironically the revenue

I agree with this, to me it was a case of too much too soon

[Mantis]

With regards to spending and cutting the wage bill I don't think Randy's done much wrong, it's his appointment of McLeish which is the real blunder.

Randy's mistake in relation to spending and cuts was allowing it to get so out of control in the first place. Having done so though he is right to address it even if he is doing it too late and in a way that is harmful to both the team, the club and ironically the revenue.

His mistakes are far more than simply appointing McLeish a mistake which was only required due to his previous mistake of appointing Houllier.

Well yes, he does need to shoulder some of the blame for that but O'Neill is just as much to blame.

As I've said before, I don't think appointing Houllier was a mistake at the time. In any case, the appointment of McLeish was never "required". There were plenty of other managers that were obtainable, probably for less money too. To this day it remains an oddity why he went out of his way to appoint such a terrible manager.

[GeauxVilla]

Yes, lets bring up the very worst chairman in the league as an example of why Randy is good. Well done.

Now lets make a list of chairman who do a much better job

im interested in these better chairmen. would you prefer either of

Gaydamak

Venkys

Hicks and Gillett

Glazers

Roman(seen chelsea fans with banners asking him to sell up yesterday)

Ashley

Ray Ranson

Gaydamak - does not own an Premier League club

Venkys - has obviously been covered

Hicks and Gillett - no longer own an Premier League club and because of their poor ownership received much less for said club than the club was valued at

Glazers - seriously? would be a dream come true. God forbid they finance us to regularly win Premier League and compete in champions league. Ask SAF if he minds working for Glazers, he has said it is much preferable to the old ownership structure for him.

Roman(seen chelsea fans with banners asking him to sell up yesterday) - an owner who within 10 years had his club winning the Premier League and a mainstay in the Champions League?

Ashley - Last time i checked they were in the top 4 and since making some serious mistakes that lead to relegation Newcastle are now well poised going forward with a new wage structure an influx of talented French players.

Ray Ranson - Owns a championship club mate, could obviously never afford the Villa

not really sure you're making the point you think you are.

As for me i agree with the popular sentiment that Randy has done a lot for this club and I still like him as an owner but clearly he has made some massive mistakes since MON **** off.

[TrentVilla]

Well yes, he does need to shoulder some of the blame for that but O'Neill is just as much to blame.

No I don't accept that. O'Neill was guilty of wasting money on certain players (we all know who) but he is absolutely not responsible for the financial position we found ourselves in.

Randy and by his appointment Paul Faulkner are responsible for the financial control of the business and it is a business. They set the budgets, the are responsible for the commercial income (some income is I admit down to the manager) they control the spending.

They are the one's who say yes to the player purchases or the player contracts. Now it is not their fault that O'Neill made some poor decisions but it is similarly not O'Neill's fault that they allowed spending and the wage bill to spiral to a level was unsustainable.

Now this is either Randy's error (either directly or indirectly) or he has had a change of heart or circumstance that dictates he is no longer able or willing to sustain a level of spending he was previously comfortable with.

The buck for our financial position stops with Randy, nobody else.

As I've said before, I don't think appointing Houllier was a mistake at the time. In any case, the appointment of McLeish was never "required". There were plenty of other managers that were obtainable, probably for less money too. To this day it remains an oddity why he went out of his way to appoint such a terrible manager.

Houllier was a terrible mistake. In health terms alone it was a mistake as he wasn't physically up to the job now you could say that is hindsight if you want that is debatable what isn't debatable though hindsight or not is that it was a bad appointment.

As for McLeish I honestly think that Randy was running out of options having rejected or been rejected by other candidates he simply opted for the first man who seemed to want to job under the conditions he was seemingly offering it.

It was a desperate appointment from a man out of his depth in football.

[Mantis]

No I don't accept that. O'Neill was guilty of wasting money on certain players (we all know who) but he is absolutely not responsible for the financial position we found ourselves in.

Randy and by his appointment Paul Faulkner are responsible for the financial control of the business and it is a business. They set the budgets, the are responsible for the commercial income (some income is I admit down to the manager) they control the spending.

They are the one's who say yes to the player purchases or the player contracts. Now it is not their fault that O'Neill made some poor decisions but it is similarly not O'Neill's fault that they allowed spending and the wage bill to spiral to a level was unsustainable.

Now this is either Randy's error (either directly or indirectly) or he has had a change of heart or circumstance that dictates he is no longer able or willing to sustain a level of spending he was previously comfortable with.

The buck for our financial position stops with Randy, nobody else.

O'Neill is partly responsible, given the large amount of control Randy gave him. Should Randy have given him such control? No, probably not, but then again I doubt O'Neill would've worked under such conditions.

Houllier was a terrible mistake.

As for McLeish I honestly think that Randy was running out of options having rejected or been rejected by other candidates he simply opted for the first man who seemed to want to job under the conditions he was seemingly offering it.

It was a desperate appointment from a man out of his depth in football.

It was only a terrible mistake with hindsight.

If that was indeed the case, then it was very stupid of him. I'm pretty sure that Randy could've gotten somebody in that was better and wouldn't cause such a storm with the fans.

[GeauxVilla]

O'Neill is partly responsible, given the large amount of control Randy gave him. Should Randy have given him such control? No, probably not, but then again I doubt O'Neill would've worked under such conditions.

.

you seem to be missing the point. You even admitted it here, Randy made the decision to hire MON and to give him a certain level of power. The underlined part here contradicts what you're saying, this is why it is Randys fault.

Rightfully or wrongfully this is a Financial decision, Randy sets the budget and if he hired MON and allowed him to keep pushing these deals through that we can't afford then he shouldn't have hired him in the first place. Either way IMO it is Randys fault like Trent said, financially the buck stops with him and he appoints those who make managerial decisions. If they make the wrong decision and it puts the club in trouble, yes THEY made the mistake. But for Aston Villa the mistake was made by Randy Lerner the man who hired them to make decisions for the club.

[TrentVilla]

O'Neill is partly responsible, given the large amount of control Randy gave him. Should Randy have given him such control? No, probably not, but then again I doubt O'Neill would've worked under such conditions.

I'm sorry but I can't accept that. The owner and chairman is responsible or at least should be responsible for the financial control of the club/business

Whatever way you want to cut it, it comes back to Randy. If he gave too much control of finances to Faulker or O'Neill then that was his mistake nobody else's.

Sure O'Neill wasted money, what manager doesn't and believe me I was one of O'Neill's biggest critics in his final 12-18 months alongside Risso but he isn't responsible for Randy's poor decisions or change of heart whichever it may be.

It was only a terrible mistake with hindsight.

If that was indeed the case, then it was very stupid of him. I'm pretty sure that Randy could've gotten somebody in that was better and wouldn't cause such a storm with the fans.

Hindsight or not it was still a mistake, I would argue it wasn't only hindsight though but that is another topic.

I don't think he could to be honest. He tried to shoehorn MacDonald into the job only for that to blow up in his face, then there was the farce of Houllier's eventual appointment. Then he tried for Rafa and Martinez both of whom said no for whatever reasons they had and then he dropped interest in McLaren because the fans knew better than him and he thankfully listed.

Could we have got someone better? Yes. Could he? All things considered, no I'm not sure he could.

[Mantis]

I'm sorry but I can't accept that. The owner and chairman is responsible or at least should be responsible for the financial control of the club/business

Whatever way you want to cut it, it comes back to Randy. If he gave too much control of finances to Faulker or O'Neill then that was his mistake nobody else's.

Sure O'Neill wasted money, what manager doesn't and believe me I was one of O'Neill's biggest critics in his final 12-18 months alongside Risso but he isn't responsible for Randy's poor decisions or change of heart whichever it may be.

Think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. Randy certainly isn't blameless but given the amount of control he had, neither is MON either IMO.

I don't think he could to be honest. He tried to shoehorn MacDonald into the job only for that to blow up in his face, then there was the farce of Houllier's eventual appointment. Then he tried for Rafa and Martinez both of whom said no for whatever reasons they had and then he dropped interest in McLaren because the fans knew better than him and he thankfully listed.

Could we have got someone better? Yes. Could he? All things considered, no I'm not sure he could.

I think he could've gotten a better manager, yes. Problem here is we don't know what went on but I certainly don't think McLeish was his only option.

[NowDoINotLikeThat]

Are ppl still going on about MON???

What the hell does MON have to do with giving this McClown a job in PRemier league after being proven a failure in it and perhaps most negative manager ever to manage in Premier league.

And actually paying good money for it!

Ie- weren't even a bargain bucket appointment in terms of money exchanged.

We tapped up this antifootball idiot and paid for the privilage - for this alone - Lerner and co. should **** off.