CI Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 We really missed a trick by not signing a big Asian name player Yes a gamble, but one that could have paid off mega bucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Lol, debatable whether you can call City a big club. 5 points clear at the top of the table, look like they'll get out of the groups in the CL, able to put out a second string 11 that would beat most PL teams. Able to threaten to leave a player they pay £250k a week to in the reserves. If they're not a big team they're certainly acting like one and I'm sure the majority of their players would consider Villa a step down.Successful/rich =/= big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Rich = Success = TV = Rich = Success = TV Rich = Success = TV etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 What annoys me about recent transfer policy is that we don't seem to learn any lessons - buying players from "bigger" clubs who haven't played regularly for a while is a huge risk, especially when we have limited resource/wage capacity etc.. - Sidwell was first - Ireland was second - closely followed by Hutton and Jenas I would personally rather we signed players that were playing regularly at a lower level if we are to take a "gamble". players on their way up, rather than on their way down. agree Like Shorey & Davies? Transfers can be hit and miss wherever they're from. I don't think we can just say 'Don't buy players that aren't playing for clubs that are currently higher than us!' What if Milner wasn't playing for City? I'd want him back if he wanted to come. Each transfer should be judged on the player and the situation they are in. You have listed a couple of "on the ups" (to use TRO's phrase) that haven't worked. I could counter with Young and Downing. Do you have any "on the downs" to counter my list? Shay Given and Richard Dunne. Petrov? Bent? (not down from Sunderland, but Sunderland and Villa are "down" from Spurs) Laursen? Stevo - read my post as I say "who haven't played regularly". Petrov and Bent were, maybe Laursen and Given are examples but I think it is less relevant for a keeper who does not have to get up to speed with a game in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Lol, debatable whether you can call City a big club. 5 points clear at the top of the table, look like they'll get out of the groups in the CL, able to put out a second string 11 that would beat most PL teams. Able to threaten to leave a player they pay £250k a week to in the reserves. If they're not a big team they're certainly acting like one and I'm sure the majority of their players would consider Villa a step down. Well let's hypothetically ask two of their players then? Gareth and James are Man City a step up from the Villa? Expected answer '****, yeah!'. The question isn't ever bigger it should be are they a more attractive proposition than us? Mancs, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverplop, Manure, Arsenal even Everton (if they get their finances sorted) all are ATM! And it makes me cringe to say it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 CI£y PSG Malaga There's the new line in BIG clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Barry, Fair enough but imo opinion you take just as much (if not more risk) on the up and coming players as you do with those that haver say spent a season on the bench at a bigger club/richer/more succesful club. If they reach the their potential then yes you've got a bargain but there's never a guarantee they will, Delph may well prove that. Just as there's no guarantee that the players coming down from big clubs will ever recapture the form that got them the move there in the first place. But you know that the ability is there somewhere so perhaps that represents less of a risk? If we're talking players that cant get into Spurs's side yes you might have a point, however clubs like City and Chelsea have vast amounts of very talented players and with the constant strwam of players coming into City there's no reason club's like Villa shouldn't be looking to attract some of the surplus, provided we can afford them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 CI£y PSG Malaga There's the new line in rich clubs fixed for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philthevillan Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Plus he didn't sign Ireland did he? yes he did Are you sure about that? If so where is your proof? He was manager when we sold Milner and got Ireland plus money in return? No he wasn't. He had already left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 10, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2011 I've supported Villa since the sixties, so I've seen the highs and lows and I'm comfortable with Randy's ownership of AVFC. I like Randy and I think McLeish is a decent guy and a reasonable manager. I also think that Villa are just about where we should be in the Premiership. I still get excited on match day, and always hope for the best, but not knowing whether we are going to win lose or draw is part of that excitement. Supporting Villa positively should not be a hanging offence! Excuse me if I don't start slagging off a decent guy, who has made a considerable investment in the club I love. Blimey not sure where to start. Nobody is asking you to slag anyone off, nobody is being critical of you for being happy with our lot or for still being excited visiting Villa Park or for being happy with Randy. You seem to be defending a position which isn't under attack, if that is how you feel then fine, no great in fact. However what you need to understand is that not everyone feels that way, not everyone is happy with the way the club has been run in recent weeks, months and perhaps even years. They see or believe they see faults in Randy and as a result will discuss those, debate them and at times be critical of him while at others they might well poke fun. That is as much any fans right as it is your right to hold the views you hold. Yet you were the one trying to dismiss the views of others simply because they weren't the same of yours by trying to marginalise them, to suggest they were saying something entirely different to what they actually were. As I responded to your initial post, nobody literally nobody thinks Randy should be able to spend money like the people at Man City. So don't put words in peoples mouths and try and belittle their views by trying to say they are saying something they aren't. That their reasonable critisms of Randy are somehow unreasonable because you are so far wide of the mark it is untrue. You are right, being positive about things shouldn't be a hanging offence but neither should be being critical. By all means disagree with people you don't agree with but don't come out with utter rubbish like the statement you made previously and expect it not to be challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I've supported Villa since the sixties, so I've seen the highs and lows and I'm comfortable with Randy's ownership of AVFC. I like Randy and I think McLeish is a decent guy and a reasonable manager. I also think that Villa are just about where we should be in the Premiership. I still get excited on match day, and always hope for the best, but not knowing whether we are going to win lose or draw is part of that excitement. Supporting Villa positively should not be a hanging offence! Excuse me if I don't start slagging off a decent guy, who has made a considerable investment in the club I love. nobody is being critical of you for being happy with our lot Which isnt true either, happy clappy brigade, head in sand, mediocrity those are just some off the top my head that are critical of his type of view. Ironic that you also mention that he shouldnt belittle others views when you open up with the blimey not sure where to start gambit then tell him his statement is utter rubbish when in effect again its just his opinion but yet thats ok to belittle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted November 10, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2011 Round and round we go...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Pottering around in eighth position, for me, is not acceptable for the major club of the UK's second city. It's acceptable for a whole range of clubs and teams from the towns and cities of the provinces but for a club of Villa's size and setting it is totally not on. I can accept where we are at the moment as a short term measure and in the light of the cutbacks Randy is making but, long term, if this is the sum of our ambition then we might as well give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Pottering around in eighth position, for me, is not acceptable for the major club of the UK's second city. It's acceptable for a whole range of clubs and teams from the towns and cities of the provinces but for a club of Villa's size and setting it is totally not on. I can accept where we are at the moment as a short term measure and in the light of the cutbacks Randy is making but, long term, if this is the sum of our ambition then we might as well give up. Sadly, league standing is now more or less directly linked to the amount of money spent on players. As long as this holds true, and as long as the board holds it's current line, mid table is right where we should expect to be.... The only real hope for glory is in the cups, but even then, if we make it as far as the QF's and face a Top 4 side, they will field their best 11, and we'll probably get a kicking. The only way out of this is to spend our way out of this, and while we all want to see more money spent, we don't want Villa to be considered on par with Chelsea and Man City in terms of excessive spending. Lerner got burned once, so he'll be reluctant to splash out again like he did with MON. It just shows you how much of an imbecile MON was in the transfer market. And how naive Lerner was in letting him go hog wild with his money. The only other way out of this is a FA or UEFA-mandated salary cap on clubs. Forced parity, if you will. But that will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammoth10 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I've supported Villa since the sixties, so I've seen the highs and lows and I'm comfortable with Randy's ownership of AVFC. I like Randy and I think McLeish is a decent guy and a reasonable manager. I also think that Villa are just about where we should be in the Premiership. I still get excited on match day, and always hope for the best, but not knowing whether we are going to win lose or draw is part of that excitement. Supporting Villa positively should not be a hanging offence! Excuse me if I don't start slagging off a decent guy, who has made a considerable investment in the club I love. nobody is being critical of you for being happy with our lot Which isnt true either, happy clappy brigade, head in sand, mediocrity those are just some off the top my head that are critical of his type of view. Ironic that you also mention that he shouldnt belittle others views when you open up with the blimey not sure where to start gambit then tell him his statement is utter rubbish when in effect again its just his opinion but yet thats ok to belittle? Wooooah you're in trouble the mighty Trentvilla cannot be questioned! Straight red card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I've supported Villa since the sixties, so I've seen the highs and lows and I'm comfortable with Randy's ownership of AVFC. I like Randy and I think McLeish is a decent guy and a reasonable manager. I also think that Villa are just about where we should be in the Premiership. I still get excited on match day, and always hope for the best, but not knowing whether we are going to win lose or draw is part of that excitement. Supporting Villa positively should not be a hanging offence! Excuse me if I don't start slagging off a decent guy, who has made a considerable investment in the club I love. nobody is being critical of you for being happy with our lot Which isnt true either, happy clappy brigade, head in sand, mediocrity those are just some off the top my head that are critical of his type of view. Ironic that you also mention that he shouldnt belittle others views when you open up with the blimey not sure where to start gambit then tell him his statement is utter rubbish when in effect again its just his opinion but yet thats ok to belittle? I think you need to go back and read his whole post and not just the quote you have extracted. Trent is not being critical of VB's views, but he is quite rightly pointing out that many of the more positive posters keep ignoring the main points of criticism and trotting out the old "stop expecting us to compete with Mansour" line. If the likes of VB and yourself could actually read the posts of the majority that are critical of RL/his management then we might actually start debating the real issues instead of going around and around in circles. Most of the VT'ers that are critical of RL understand that he cannot compete with Mansour and most do not expect him to try. This is a complete red herring. What we are critical of is the following: - his inability to appoint a decent board - the debacle he has made over the last two managerial appointments - the fact that he allowed the wage bill to spiral out of control and then tried to correct it almost overnight at the risk of leaving us short of players in vital positions and potentially in a relegation battle. Trying to make the Villa self sustainable is only common business sense and the majority understand this. We just think that RL is going about this in the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I've supported Villa since the sixties, so I've seen the highs and lows and I'm comfortable with Randy's ownership of AVFC. I like Randy and I think McLeish is a decent guy and a reasonable manager. I also think that Villa are just about where we should be in the Premiership. I still get excited on match day, and always hope for the best, but not knowing whether we are going to win lose or draw is part of that excitement. Supporting Villa positively should not be a hanging offence! Excuse me if I don't start slagging off a decent guy, who has made a considerable investment in the club I love. nobody is being critical of you for being happy with our lot Which isnt true either, happy clappy brigade, head in sand, mediocrity those are just some off the top my head that are critical of his type of view. Ironic that you also mention that he shouldnt belittle others views when you open up with the blimey not sure where to start gambit then tell him his statement is utter rubbish when in effect again its just his opinion but yet thats ok to belittle? I think you need to go back and read his whole post and not just the quote you have extracted. Trent is not being critical of VB's views, but he is quite rightly pointing out that many of the more positive posters keep ignoring the main points of criticism and trotting out the old "stop expecting us to compete with Mansour" line. If the likes of VB and yourself could actually read the posts of the majority that are critical of RL/his management then we might actually start debating the real issues instead of going around and around in circles. Most of the VT'ers that are critical of RL understand that he cannot compete with Mansour and most do not expect him to try. This is a complete red herring. What we are critical of is the following: - his inability to appoint a decent board - the debacle he has made over the last two managerial appointments - the fact that he allowed the wage bill to spiral out of control and then tried to correct it almost overnight at the risk of leaving us short of players in vital positions and potentially in a relegation battle. Trying to make the Villa self sustainable is only common business sense and the majority understand this. We just think that RL is going about this in the wrong way. Here, Here!! I for one agree with BB's points as to why people are critical of Randy. This does not mean that I think Randy is a bad owner, just like I thought HDE was not a bad chairman but this does not mean that they are immune from critisim. I also get fed up when people say 'well he could be a dodgy Chinese fella or Hicks and Gillett' which is totally irrelevant. I used to love telling other fans how great our chairman was and it had nothing to do with how much we spent on players. Now I don't say anything and feel that all these previous acts were just PR stunts and hollow gestures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 11, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 11, 2011 Which isnt true either, happy clappy brigade, head in sand, mediocrity those are just some off the top my head that are critical of his type of view. Actually it is true. The labels that you are talking about aren't tolerated on here by me or by the other moderators, labelling posters or groups of posters isn't allowed which is why you don't see labels on either side of the divide. In any case this isn't the same thing at all, to be the same those who are critical of Randy would have to be making some statement similar to the one I initially responded to. Ironic that you also mention that he shouldnt belittle others views when you open up with the blimey not sure where to start gambit then tell him his statement is utter rubbish when in effect again its just his opinion but yet thats ok to belittle? I suggest that you look up the word ironic and actually read what I posted. I've not belitted anyone or their views, saying "blimey I don't know where to start" is a certainly not an example. As for me saying his statement was utter rubbish, well saying that people need to accept Randy isn't as rich as the fella at City is rubbish because nobody needs to accept this do they? Everyone already knows it. The rest of his opinion he is perfectly entitled to as is everyone, what isn't ok is coming up with some statement like that to try and deride others opinions and make them seem totally unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Wow, well I'be been told. I really cant be arsed replying to all the above its the equivalent of continually pushing polar magnets together with one arm. Three real nuggets of posts totally missing my point as well but I guess that isnt ironic either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Wow, well I'be been told. I really cant be arsed replying to all the above its the equivalent of continually pushing polar magnets together with one arm. Three real nuggets of posts totally missing my point as well but I guess that isnt ironic either. Only one person missing the point I feel. But don't go. This is a debating site and if everybody agreed then it would soon grind to a halt. I believe that you think RL is doing a reasonable/good job and I, for one, would be interested to know why. All I, and Trent I believe, are trying to do is shift the focus of this debate away from the red herring that is "competing with Mansour" on spending on to the true debate which is around the day to day running of the club (board, manager appointments etc.) as set out above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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