pacbuddies Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Because of Bannan's diminutive size he sees everything as though he were living in the land of the giants hence why he passes it further because it looks so massive. Problem identified! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If we stay up the board deserve credit, did i really read that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Con, Surely if we were passing the ball a further 2 metres than we should be as you put it the League table would be a reflection of the average pass length table you have provided? It provides absolutely no argument to suggest if we shortened our passing we would be a better team. If it did Wigan would be in contention for a european place and we should be mid table battling it out with spurs and everton. Makes no sense! After 23 matches of this Premier League season there is a correlation between shorter passing and higher position in the league table. This is just ridiculous. What on earth does this show. That we on average pass it 2m more in distance than some of the other teams in the league, and the same distance s other teams? What we need to worry about is that no matter how far we pass it, its usually to the other bloody team. Pass it shorter and it's easier because the guy you are passing to is closer. ****! We are passing the ball 2 meters too far, now I know why we have been shit for 3 years. Someone get Lerner on the phone we've found the answer to all our problems...... In other totally unrelated news, Bannan loves a long pass doesn't he He takes the free kicks and corners. It's 34 meters to the penalty spot. This bumps up his figure compared to Westwood and Delph. The same thing occurs for Gerrard vs Lucas. Gerrard takes a lot of the set pieces, Lucas doesn't take any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 After 23 matches of this Premier League season there is a correlation between shorter passing and higher position in the league table. Pass it shorter and it's easier because the guy you are passing to is closer. He takes the free kicks and corners. It's 34 meters to the penalty spot. This bumps up his figure compared to Westwood and Delph. The same thing occurs for Gerrard vs Lucas. Gerrard takes a lot of the set pieces, Lucas doesn't take any. The teams are higher up the league because they are better players. If you tell our lads to go and pass it shorter it wont make a difference. Its not about shorter passing, its about creating space which we are awful at - hence why we tend to kick it long in hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think it is true that the best teams play a short passing possession style. A difference of 2 meters may not seem like much but when you are talking about the average passes over a whole season it probably is quite a difference statistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If we stay up the board deserve credit, did i really read that? You just took a single quote out of context. A brilliant post as well Blandy, as ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The teams are higher up the league because they are better players. If you tell our lads to go and pass it shorter it wont make a difference. Its not about shorter passing, its about creating space which we are awful at - hence why we tend to kick it long in hope. not an easily resolvable argument - chicken vs egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Con is Jonah Hill's character in Moneyball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 After 23 matches of this Premier League season there is a correlation between shorter passing and higher position in the league table. Pass it shorter and it's easier because the guy you are passing to is closer. He takes the free kicks and corners. It's 34 meters to the penalty spot. This bumps up his figure compared to Westwood and Delph. The same thing occurs for Gerrard vs Lucas. Gerrard takes a lot of the set pieces, Lucas doesn't take any. Con, you still didn't come back with a real argument to my comment. As Woodytom said, "The teams are higher up the league because they are better players. If you tell our lads to go and pass it shorter it wont make a difference. Its not about shorter passing, its about creating space which we are awful at - hence why we tend to kick it long in hope". This is more of a factor as to why we are in our current position along with poor formations and tactics, not passing averages. Like This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 A shoestring? 60m spent in the last 2 years? Of course their are more people at fault than the managers, but if they had bought players who were any bloody good, we wouldnt be in this mess. 60m is enough to buy a whole team of half decent players. Weve got 2 or 3. sometimes the most basic posts ( thats not being rude)are spot on. totally agree,We have spent enough money to have a much better side. The recruitment over the years has just been a buggers muddle, no strategc plan, just who's available.... we may as well go the whole hog and appoint a recruitment agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Con, you still didn't come back with a real argument to my comment. As Woodytom said, "The teams are higher up the league because they are better players. If you tell our lads to go and pass it shorter it wont make a difference. Its not about shorter passing, its about creating space which we are awful at - hence why we tend to kick it long in hope". This is more of a factor as to why we are in our current position along with poor formations and tactics, not passing averages. Are those teams higher in the league because they have better players who can pass short, or because they have worse players (or not much better players) with a superior passing system? We seem to have got the idea from somewhere passing long is easy while passing short is hard. So you need better players to pass short. Really? You could argue passing short requires players with less skill, as you don't need to pass it so far. Plus, if the ball is kept on the floor, rather than bouncing from a height, you only need the side of your foot to control it. Flat passing requires a good surface - Villa Park has it. Pass and move, pass and move. If you are patient spaces open up for you because the opposition eventually switches off and lets you in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Con, you still didn't come back with a real argument to my comment. As Woodytom said, "The teams are higher up the league because they are better players. If you tell our lads to go and pass it shorter it wont make a difference. Its not about shorter passing, its about creating space which we are awful at - hence why we tend to kick it long in hope". This is more of a factor as to why we are in our current position along with poor formations and tactics, not passing averages.Like This I tend to think its our ability off the ball rather than on it ....which is our current problem. space, positional play etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Are those teams higher in the league because they have better players who can pass short, or because they have worse players (or not much better players) with a superior passing system? We seem to have got the idea from somewhere passing long is easy while passing short is hard. So you need better players to pass short. Really? You could argue passing short requires players with less skill, as you don't need to pass it so far. Plus, if the ball is kept on the floor, rather than bouncing from a height, you only need the side of your foot to control it. Flat passing requires a good surface - Villa Park has it. Pass and move, pass and move. If you are patient spaces open up for you because the opposition eventually switches off and lets you in. To pass short you need players with naturally quick feet an immediate eye for a outlet ball and the ability to postion themselves for a return, not to mention an intrinsic desire to work hard.....Oh dear , back to Forty yarders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 You just took a single quote out of context. A brilliant post as well Blandy, as ever. How was it out of context? It's quite clear. Do you think the manager and board deserve lots of credit if we stay up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Sorry. Do I need to be like you and convince myself of improvements when I post on here? We have some strong players but a lot of our team are physically and mentally weak. Especially in midfield. Do you disagree with that? And yes I think the first WBA goal showed that flaw in our team. You don't give up do you? - When I was mentioning improvements about five weeks ago that was on the back of a run of games when we were improving. Since the Chelsea game you'll notice I cunningly didn't mention improvement because there was none (we were awful) Can I see some positives? - a few, yes. For me our team are neither physically or mentally weak, they just lack experience and confidence. Personally I don't think we are a million miles away from turning the corner. With a bit more confidence and a modicum of luck we could have had 7 points from the last three games instead of 2, but at the moment things are not quite going our way. I beleive that that will change - starting tomorrow night. PL could do with a bit of support from Lerner - a couple of £5m players would transform the side but it looks like we arn't getting them. I'd much rather live in my world and continue to look for the best in the manager and players, than try and bring them down for every fault, real or imagined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Even when we reached the giddy heights of 666 with MONs "Forest funnel" football we were always in the mid 70% for passing accuracy which all the "Sky 4" teams traditionally average in the high 80's. I think this is what seperates the top teams from the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Are those teams higher in the league because they have better players who can pass short, or because they have worse players (or not much better players) with a superior passing system? We seem to have got the idea from somewhere passing long is easy while passing short is hard. So you need better players to pass short. Really? You could argue passing short requires players with less skill, as you don't need to pass it so far. Plus, if the ball is kept on the floor, rather than bouncing from a height, you only need the side of your foot to control it. Flat passing requires a good surface - Villa Park has it. Pass and move, pass and move. If you are patient spaces open up for you because the opposition eventually switches off and lets you in. I did have you down as a lunatic, however I think there might be something in what you say That said, I'm not sure how we could implement any changes based on that - what is it you want the team to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 You don't give up do you? - When I was mentioning improvements about five weeks ago that was on the back of a run of games when we were improving. Since the Chelsea game you'll notice I cunningly didn't mention improvement because there was none (we were awful) Can I see some positives? - a few, yes. For me our team are neither physically or mentally weak, they just lack experience and confidence. Personally I don't think we are a million miles away from turning the corner. With a bit more confidence and a modicum of luck we could have had 7 points from the last three games instead of 2, but at the moment things are not quite going our way. I beleive that that will change - starting tomorrow night. PL could do with a bit of support from Lerner - a couple of £5m players would transform the side but it looks like we arn't getting them. I'd much rather live in my world and continue to look for the best in the manager and players, than try and bring them down for every fault, real or imagined Yes i remember your attempt to select a period that suited you in order to bang on about improvements and moan at anyone who didn't see it. Oh and then what happened? Are there positives? Compared to the awful year last season, not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Do you think the manager and board deserve lots of credit if we stay up? The manager - credit, yes. Lots of credit, no The board - not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 You don't give up do you? - When I was mentioning improvements about five weeks ago that was on the back of a run of games when we were improving. Since the Chelsea game you'll notice I cunningly didn't mention improvement because there was none (we were awful) Can I see some positives? - a few, yes. For me our team are neither physically or mentally weak, they just lack experience and confidence. Personally I don't think we are a million miles away from turning the corner. With a bit more confidence and a modicum of luck we could have had 7 points from the last three games instead of 2, but at the moment things are not quite going our way. I beleive that that will change - starting tomorrow night. PL could do with a bit of support from Lerner - a couple of £5m players would transform the side but it looks like we arn't getting them. I'd much rather live in my world and continue to look for the best in the manager and players, than try and bring them down for every fault, real or imagined Lambert has said " Lack of experience is not a problem" I wish I knew the answer, not that it would matter as I can't do anything about it. I think our physique has a bearing , we are simply brushed aside in some critical positions which creates anxiety in defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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