jacketspuds Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I can't believe for one second that adding decent players now would or could lead to financial ruin. Our wage bill has come down massively in the last few years. I think the Southampton game is the priority. Under MoN I felt it was best to rest players and give 4th spot our total commitment and I feel staying in the league is also the priority now under Lambert. Many argued that Mon resting players in the cup contributed to us finishing outside the top 4 so it will be interesting to see the reaction if Lambert chooses to do the same. Our wage bill may have come down massively but it has come from a position of us losing £50m a season. Granted not all of this is attributed to wages but we are also losing money by no longer finishing near the top 6. I agree that adding a couple of decent players wouldn't scupper Lerner's money saving plans but I'm just stating what I believe to be the reasons why we aren't going out and spending loads at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The wages we need to lose like Warnock and Dunne come to around £3m until the end of their contracts (30.6.13) It seems to be Makoun, Hutton and Given that cause us problems at about £9million a year combined - that is where it all went wrong paying high wages for shite. Lambert should be able to justify paying higher wages BUt he almost needs to guarantee the quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 2, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 2, 2013 Many argued that Mon resting players in the cup contributed to us finishing outside the top 4 so it will be interesting to see the reaction if Lambert chooses to do the same. Not the same at all. MON as a general rule never rested players. It was out of character for him to do so. He'd use the same 11 until they got injured. This meant that on the rare occasions when someone was rested and someone else called upon, they were rusty and not match fit. Which in a twisted way justified his decision never to rest players - because results suffered if he did. It's also why we suffered post-March under him. Because we'd end up with a combination of rusty reserves and totally knackered seniors. Lambert rotates his squad plenty. So if he was to bring players in, it wouldn't be out of character and the players coming in would in all likelyhood be ready to step in and do a job. The fact the competition comes a week after the end of the Christmas period and a few days before an enormous league game means I'd be surprised; given what we're used to from him; if he didn't tinker with the edges of the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 To me he put a weakened side out against Moscow because we didn't have the squad capable of finishing 4th while challenging for the Europa cup. Right now I don't think we have the squad capable of challenging for cups and guaranteeing us premiership survival. It's the same thing, prioritising one target over another because the strength of the squad is not good enough to do both. I was happy with what MoN did, but many argued that losing a game leads to loss of form and confidence which then didn't help us get 4th spot. I think the same could be argued in Lamberts case but I believe it's the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 2, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 2, 2013 The mistake MON made in Moscow was that he made wholesale changes. This had 2 effects. One, it threw away the competition because he used debutants who never had a chance. Secondly, the manner in which the changes were made had a devastating effect on morale. The regulars to that point thought they were going to take the competition seriously and then it was dismissed in one team selection taking the wind completely out of their sails. They felt their efforts to that point had been wasted and we never regained the morale. Any changes that Lambert makes for the Ipswich or the Bradford games won't be that wholesale because you can guarantee that the vast majority of players who come in will have already played for the club this season and probably played quite a lot. That's the benefit of rotating. It means those who come in are ready to do so. Unlike how MON used to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Mon and his rotation is a different argument. We were challenging for the top 4 and a lot of our squad players were not good enough to step in and continue this challenge. Lambert is trying to see which players can play and trying different Our top players under MoN may well have felt deflated when they were dropped for the 2nd leg and I can't see why that couldn't happen again if our top players are dropped for the semi final in this league cup. Can't see how the fact that some of the players we use would have played more will stop our big players feeling the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 2, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 2, 2013 I was just explaining the differences between a MON & a Lambert rotation because you said you were going to find people's reactions to any Lambert changes 'interesting' on the basis that you remembered the MON Moscow incident. They are completely different, as you now say above when you say 'different argument' and as a result of that, it shouldn't be interesting in that respect at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The talk of wages got me thinking about angel, when he signed his contract in 04/05, according to dougs book he was on £42k a week, over twice as much as any villa player. 4 years later 3/4 of our squad was on over 40k, and we were still shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The Moscow decision wasn't based on any sort of rotation policy and if we rest our best players against Bradford neither will that. The Moscow decision was based on prioritising the challenge for the top 4. And if Lambert rests our best players against Bradford it will be because he's prioritising our premiership survival. Lambert's rotation policy so far has not been to rest our best players at the same time, so if he does this against Bradford it will be a decision based on which game he thinks is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 2, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'd have quite a large bet with you that a ) the amount of changes Lambert makes against Bradford to his first team will be fewer than the ones MON made in Moscow and more crucially and it's the point I've been making b ) the team Lambert puts out against Bradford will have had a lot more Premier League appearances this season than the one MON put out in Moscow that season (taking time of league season into account obviously). In short, I'll eat my left nut if Lambert does 'a Moscow' to the same extent as MON did 'a Moscow'. That doesn't mean he can't make any changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Many argued that Mon resting players in the cup contributed to us finishing outside the top 4 so it will be interesting to see the reaction if Lambert chooses to do the same. never once heard that argument. people only complained about Moscow debacle cause he disrespected the fans, nothing about 4th spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 That Moscow team btw Guzan, Luke Young, Davies (Osbourne 84), Knight, Shorey, Albrighton, Gardner, Salifou (Harewood 46), Sidwell, Bannan, Delfouneso. Subs Not Used: Taylor, Lichaj, Clark, lowry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutherland Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'd have quite a large bet with you that a ) the amount of changes Lambert makes against Bradford to his first team will be fewer than the ones MON made in Moscow and more crucially and it's the point I've been making b ) the team Lambert puts out against Bradford will have had a lot more Premier League appearances this season than the one MON put out in Moscow that season (taking time of league season into account obviously). In short, I'll eat my left nut if Lambert does 'a Moscow' to the same extent as MON did 'a Moscow'. That doesn't mean he can't make any changes. CSKA Moscow: Akinfeev, Alexei Berezutsky, Vasili Berezutsky, Ignashevich, Shchennikov, Krasic, Rahimic, Semberas, Zhirkov, Dzagoev, Vagner Love. Subs Not Used: Pomazan, Odiah, Daniel Carvalho, Mamaev, Erkin, Ramon, Ricardo Jesus. Booked: Dzagoev. Goals: Zhirkov 61, Vagner Love 90. Aston Villa: Guzan, Luke Young, Davies (Osbourne 84), Knight, Shorey, Albrighton, Gardner, Salifou (Harewood 46), Sidwell, Bannan, Delfouneso. Subs Not Used: Taylor, Lichaj, Clark, Lowry. Booked: Bannan, Albrighton Five of that lot are now first team regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Guzan, Clark and bannan be teh regulars. wouldnt count Albrighton or Lichaj as regulars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 2, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 2, 2013 CSKA Moscow: Akinfeev, Alexei Berezutsky, Vasili Berezutsky, Ignashevich, Shchennikov, Krasic, Rahimic, Semberas, Zhirkov, Dzagoev, Vagner Love. Subs Not Used: Pomazan, Odiah, Daniel Carvalho, Mamaev, Erkin, Ramon, Ricardo Jesus. Booked: Dzagoev. Goals: Zhirkov 61, Vagner Love 90. Aston Villa: Guzan, Luke Young, Davies (Osbourne 84), Knight, Shorey, Albrighton, Gardner, Salifou (Harewood 46), Sidwell, Bannan, Delfouneso. Subs Not Used: Taylor, Lichaj, Clark, Lowry. Booked: Bannan, Albrighton Five of that lot are now first team regulars. And? My point is that at the time they were kids, some who were making; or had only just made; their debuts. The fact that years later they are now more senior and some are regulars is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 If i remember that was our regular central defensive partnership as Laursen knee had just given out on him the month before. the rest i would say played about 40 league games between them as Shorey, Young and Sidwell were all regulars until about december Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 never once heard that argument. people only complained about Moscow debacle cause he disrespected the fans, nothing about 4th spot I remember reading many posts about how that decision played some part in our failure to get 4th spot that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) I think Lambert will make a few changes for Bradford Away, which tbh, with our injuries, he has every right to. However, I would expect and almost want more against Ipswich in the FA Cup. While it would be great to keep going in the competition, but with current injuries, that is one more fixture we do not need, so if some of the fringe players can get it done in that match and we move on, so be it. But I would rather not lose any more players to stupid injuries just to move on in the FA Cup. Edited January 2, 2013 by LockStockVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'd have quite a large bet with you that a ) the amount of changes Lambert makes against Bradford to his first team will be fewer than the ones MON made in Moscow and more crucially and it's the point I've been making b ) the team Lambert puts out against Bradford will have had a lot more Premier League appearances this season than the one MON put out in Moscow that season (taking time of league season into account obviously). In short, I'll eat my left nut if Lambert does 'a Moscow' to the same extent as MON did 'a Moscow'. That doesn't mean he can't make any changes. You could find differences but the bottom line is the manager prioritising one competition over the other and picking his team because of that. Lambert won't base his decision on how many games the squad have played this season. If he does put a weakened team out against Bradford if will be because he wants to save his best players for the premiership. Which is exactly what Mon was doing when he made his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutherland Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 And? My point is that at the time they were kids, some who were making; or had only just made; their debuts. The fact that years later they are now more senior and some are regulars is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Point is out of our current 35 man squad it is impossible to do a moscow at bradford. With players out injured or on loan, from those available to come in or who are making; or only just making their debuts would be williams, johnson, carruthers, bowery and burke. No way on gods earth will all those be in the squad let alone start. So comparing the moscow squad to the pottential bradford squad is pretty pointless really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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