Kevin Prince-Boating Racism walk out.

[Demitri_C]

What can they do though? Give fans a lifetime ban?

I think they should ban countries from hosting major events if they dont stamp it out like Euros and World cups, Cl finals etc

[Zatman]

he isnt 1st player. Zoro did it back in 2004 when Messina played INter and the inter players had to ask him to go back on and play which I think he did

[BOF]

Sepp Blatter questions Kevin-Prince Boateng's protest against racism.

The Guardian

In fairness all he does is question the method, which is what we're doing in here. He's right too, because as I said, a walk-off could in theory happen because a team don't fancy losing the match, so they cite racism and do a runner. But it still had to happen just to get a reaction. I bet UEFA/FIFA will now look much more seriously at practical long term solutions to the problem if only to stave off future walk-offs and compromise competitive matches.

[TrentVilla]

In fairness BOF I think he does a little more than that when he says they 'shouldn't run away', now granted you have to take into account context and perhaps translation but if accurate that phrase is an utter disgrace. I would also point out that this is a man who previously said the following about racist abuse of players by players.

"He should say that this is a game. We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination."

I actually agree with much of what you've posted above I really do but I think it is fair to say Blatter has previous on this subject and makes me question just how seriously he views this kind of incident.

It is the fault of FIFA and UEFA that incidents like this occur as frequently as they do due to their failure to impose adequate sanctions on those responsible or failing that the teams they support/represent.

I said early in this thread that this incident wouldn't change a thing and it is comments like this from Blatter that are the reason I think that way.

[Ghost]

UEFA fined Man City 30 thousand euros for being one minute late onto the pitch back in August 2012.

UEFA fined FC Porto 20 thousand euros for their fans' racist chants against Balotelli and Yaya Toure one month earler.

Nuff said.

[BOF]

In fairness BOF I think he does a little more than that when he says they 'shouldn't run away', now granted you have to take into account context and perhaps translation but if accurate that phrase is an utter disgrace. I would also point out that this is a man who previously said the following about racist abuse of players by players.

"He should say that this is a game. We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination."

I actually agree with much of what you've posted above I really do but I think it is fair to say Blatter has previous on this subject and makes me question just how seriously he views this kind of incident.

It is the fault of FIFA and UEFA that incidents like this occur as frequently as they do due to their failure to impose adequate sanctions on those responsible or failing that the teams they support/represent.

I said early in this thread that this incident wouldn't change a thing and it is comments like this from Blatter that are the reason I think that way.

I'm actually coming at his comments from another viewpoint i.e. precisely because it is Blatter, people will try to misinterpret/pick fault or see things that he hasn't actually said, because they don't like him. That because it's him, it automatically prejudices what people hear. Which is why I think particularly in this race discussion, people need to try to separate ad hominem attacks and heldover dislikes of Blatter, because it only distracts from the topic at hand. I agree he has been a nutcase in the past. A true dinosaur and still is. It remains to be seen what next step the governing bodies decide upon.

[TrentVilla]

I'm really struggling here to understand your point mate. I would have his "shouldn't run away" comment unacceptable whoever said it.

I don't really see how though you can ignore who it is saying it given a) his position and his track record.

[KobiV]

Fair play to him, would have been interesting to see if it hadn't been a friendly.

I can't understand Blatter, he's ancient and stuck in his ancient ways. What would he have rathered Boating do, stay on the pitch fot the rest of the game, there was only 25 minutes gone. There's not enough money or motivation in the world to have someone listen to that.

[BOF]

@Trent

My point is that the things he actually says i.e. the direct quotes from him and not the editorial that the article wraps around them are not too dissimilar to what is being said in here and certainly doesn't come across to me as being in any way inflammatory.

Walk off? No. I don't think that is the solution.

Something we've debated in here and broadely agree that it is a minefield for corruption once that becomes a potential solution. We've also questioned whether it is the solution.

But the Italian federation has yet to provide Fifa with a report detailing what exactly has happened.

Sensible to wait for the official account of what happened.

I don't think you can run away, because then the team should have to forfeit the match.

In this context the phrase 'I don't think you can run away' can easily be interpreted as meaning that you should stand up to the hatred and confront it at the point where it happens (with perhaps a new yet-to-be-implemented rule) rather than let the bullies win. It also cites the current rule (which I mentioned earlier as being problematic at the moment) that a team who walks off the pitch forfeits the match. So the current rules aren't set up to allow this solution.

This issue is a very touchy subject

We can all agree on that, which is why a solution that stops the hatred while not compromising the game will be so difficult to find.

but I repeat there is zero tolerance of racism in the stadium, we have to go against that.

Fairly standard rhetoric. The kind we're all fairly tired of by now and the kind which I think is coming to an end because I think we've reached a tipping point. KPB's actions have focussed the minds of the powers that be and I think in the current climate this isn't going to go away without a solution of some description.

"The only solution is to be very harsh with the sanctions [against racism] – and the sanctions must be a deduction of points or something similar."

Easier said than done, but it's certainly something a team would be loathe to receive. It's also a sea change given that up to now, the fines dealt to clubs guilty of being involved in racism have been tiny.

He added: "We have to have no tolerance to racism, absolutely no tolerance. This action is an example that the spectators must behave well

I've split this because I think the next bit needs its own comment. The above is just more rhetoric.

because, as I understand it, the player ran away and the others went with him. [The spectators] cannot go on abusing afterwards."

At worst it's careless and insensitive use of the term 'ran away' being used at the tail end of a longer summary sentence. But it doesn't change the over-riding point which is that the action in and of itself as we've discussed is potentially problematic both from a current rules point of view (forfeit) and from a precedent point of view (hey we're losing, let's walk off).

The comments, taken in isolation and read as if spoken by someone unknown, are not particularly controversial IMO. Granted, some words could have been more carefully chosen but then I'm of the belief that if you go looking for offence in anything, you can usually find it. And that's what I think people are prone to doing with Blatter comments. I just think that at the moment, while football actually tries to solve its problem of racism, it becomes extremely counter-productive to that issue if we get side-tracked by commenting on Blatter for the sake of commenting on Blatter. Whatever he has done in the past. This is bigger than him.

[Qwpzxjor1]

he isnt 1st player. Zoro did it back in 2004 when Messina played INter and the inter players had to ask him to go back on and play which I think he did

Exactly - he came back on. So the fans weren't affected other than a minor disruption.

This time his teammates have stood up for him and it has resulted in the cancellation of the game.

My only concern is that it encourages 'vigilante justice'. Basically saying to the rest of the fans - sorry you missed out on the game of a lifetime, but it's because of that lot over there..

As far as I know, nothing really kicked off, but on another day it could easily have done.

Fifa / Uefa fining clubs won't work until the clubs make a bold statement to the fans. "Due to our racism fine last week, ticket prices for the next 2 games will go up 20%".. something like that. But then you'll probably just find the clubs being double punished and coming out as the bad guys to the fans.

It's the fans that cause this, albeit a minority, and therefore it won't stop until the fans pay the price. This sort of protest is huge because it punishes the fans, and that minority will sulk back to their homes not only having not seen the game they paid to watch, but were responsible for a stadium full of people having the same punishment.

It's been more-or-less stamped out in England completely, mainly due to the minority being so small and the majority having the guts to stand up against it.

If you were at a Serie A game or Russian League game, and there were 200 drunk skinheads shouting racist abuse at the players, would you have the guts to tell them to shut up? I imagine the stewards are equally apprehensive.

I've gone on a bit here - too much coffee and just typed and typed - but I think until the fans get directly punished then it won't really stop. Vigilante justice may be the most effective way, they need to encourage an environment where the majority can stand up to the racists and have them ejected from the stadium and banned from games, people may get hurt on the way. It's sad, but they say this is a war on racism, and you can't have a war without colateral damage.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Qwpzxjor1

[TrentVilla]

Ok, thanks BOF I appreciate the time it took to construct that reply and I at least now understand the point you are making even if I don't agree with you.

I actually agree, walking off isn't the solution so I agree with you and in turn with Sepp Blatter on that. (worded intentionally carefully to try and avoid putting you in a category with him because off what I will say later) In fact Blatter isn't the only one to say it won't work, Clarence Seedorf has said the same and that man knows far more than I about being on the end of racist abuse.

There is a difference though between thinking that walking off is the wrong thing to do and being critical of someone for doing so, from calling them in effect a coward for doing so. That is what Blatter has done here, you dismiss his words far too easily in my opinion as being a poor choice of phrase but I simply do not agree for reasons I will return to.

So I think everyone is agreed that walking off isn't the solution so what is the solution? I would say that is for the games governing bodies to take firm, clear and unequivocal action to demonstrate clearly that racism in any form in the game, should it be from player, club, manager, coach, fan or chairman that it is not acceptable and simply will not be tolerated. That examples will be handled swiftly and without delay and suitable punishments will be handed out in order to act as sufficient deterrent to reduce the incidents as sadly I don't think it will ever be eradicated because you can't eradicate stupidity. Not least through football anyway, that is the job of society and education.

You say it is sensible to await the Italian FA's report, a federation I might add that has time and time again shown itself to be rather soft on the issue of racism which is fairly widespread in Italian football. Take a look at the Lazio crowd most weeks of the season, racism isn't being tackled sufficiently in Italian domestic football and then it raises its head in European football and once again goes unpunished or if it is punished the punishments are meaningless and in my view token gestures rather than what I describe above.

You say Blatter is right to await the report but yet you don't recognise the irony of the fact he hasn't waited for the report before commenting and branding the players actions wrong. I would also add that the incident took place on the 3rd of January, the report isn't coming out today unless of missed it so why is it taking so long? How long does it take to get the referee's report and to take statements from the players? Why isn't Blatter being critical of the delay in the the report being provided?

You suggest he is saying walking off isn't a solution because of the fear of corruption, well please be mindful that Blatter is on record of saying this on the topic of corruption in Italian football and match fixing.

“I could understand it if it had happened in Africa, but not in Italy.” -

And you expect me to believe that this man takes the issue of racism seriously? That in itself is a racist and bigoted statement, how can anyone take this man seriously when he talks about someone should or shouldn't do when racially abused? A man who is on record as saying played should "shake hands" and forget it because it has happened in the game.

How on earth can you expect anyone to take a man seriously when he says there will be no tolerance of racism when the man himself has made racist comments such as the above and when the body which he leads has taken insufficient action in order to tackle the issue. After all this is a man who oversaw the awarding of the World Cup to Russia a country with a terrible track record of the racist abuse of black players and which recently saw a fans group issue a openly racist statement about player recruitment.

Or how about when he compared the transfer market to the slave trade? Are you really telling me this man is going to take a tough stance on racism?

In my opinion Blatter is a bigot and a racist which is why I was careful not to bracket you with the man because I know you are neither of these things.

This though is a man who also saw a World Cup awarded to Qatar and when questioned on the issues facing homosexuals travelling to the country said;

“I would say they should refrain from any sexual activities.” (his advice to homosexuals travelling to Qatar 2022)

Then there are his comments about women in football as well, the man is from the dark ages and I'm afraid he just doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt you are giving him. His talk about tough sanctions is just talk, meaningless talk and said because he knows it is what he is expected to say rather than what he actually seemingly believes. So no at worst his words aren't in my opinion careless and insensitive.

When you have players being fined more for showing a slogan on a t-shirt than for racist abuse then the problems go far far higher than those watching or playing the game. They go to the people governing who year after year fail to deal with the issues or seemingly even seriously try, in fact I'm not even convinced some see them as problematic.

So it isn't attacking Blatter for the sake of attacking Blatter, it is about recognising he is part of the problem not part of the solution as he attempts to paint himself. That is why my first reaction in this thread was to say that nothing will change as a result of this incident and it won't.

I will shut up now but one last quote from the man before I do.

Asked if he thought there was any racism on the pitch, he told CNN: “I would deny it.

"There is no racism, there is maybe one of the players towards another, he has a word or a gesture which is not the correct one.

“But also the one who is affected by that, he should say that this is a game.

"We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination.

[PompeyVillan]

Vigilante justice isn't the right way to tackle this problem, but until something is significant is done about it, it's probably the only way the players can make their point and punish the racist fans.

[Stevo985]

I admire Boateng for his stance, but agree with the majority that walking off isn't the solution. It'll complicate things going forward. Teams claiming racism to get a game called off or even fans being racist intending to get a game called off.

But it's an admirable gesture, and who knows, maybe it'll be the first step towards something bigger?

As for Blatter... if he'd said something like the above, that he admired Boateng and his stance but he thinks boycotting games isn't the right thing to do, then it'd be fair enough. But he's sort of just dismissed the whole thing, which kind of cements the view that FIFA don't really care about racism.

[Czechlad]

We cant change a racist's viewpoint, but we can issue much bigger punishments. As mentioned previously, City got a worse punishment for arriving late than Porto did for their racist fans. There should be hefty fines and potentially game dismissals. Say a Russian team racially harasses a player on an opposing team in the champions league, I believe they should be given the game loss no matter what the result was. Although this also can be used to other team's advantage's. They could easily say that their players were racially abused and deserve the win.

I have no idea what to do but something needs to be done.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Czechlad

[Czechlad]

Pro Patria has to play one whole match behind closed doors as punishment. What a punishment

This is why racism is still happening.

[Zatman]

Anybody catch the Sky Sports racism report last night. saw last 2 or 3 minutes but stuff that went on at the Den was absolute vile. Wasnt just opposition players getting horrible abuse, Sittu was as well.

 

I know was only a 5 or 6 people but was sickening

[islingtonclaret]

FIFA and UEFA will, as they always do, try and bury their head in the sand and pretend that it's not happening

[Dr_Pangloss]

Millwall fans are animals.

[AVFCforever1991]

Millwall fans are animals.

 

Bit insulting to animals tbh.

[TrentVilla]

Anybody catch the Sky Sports racism report last night. saw last 2 or 3 minutes but stuff that went on at the Den was absolute vile. Wasnt just opposition players getting horrible abuse, Sittu was as well.

 

I know was only a 5 or 6 people but was sickening

 

Sickening yes, surprising? No not at all sadly.

We all know exactly what you are going to hear if you go to Millwall it doesn't take a investigation from Sky to discover it. Millwall are certainly one of if not the worst but it happens at plenty of other grounds up and down the land.

Believe me i'm quick to point the finger at UEFA and FIFA, see my earlier lengthy post about it above, but we should also be pointing the finger at our own FA. What are they doing about it? FA is what.

 

They have failed to deal with the issue in the game either in the stands or on the pitch.

 

Returning to the original topic of the thread, did UEFA ever do anything about the racist abuse direct at Boetang? Perhaps they could speak to Milan's vice chairman, or perhaps not...