DeepDish Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Well, I just read The secret footballer and it opened my eyes to why MON, Houllier, McLeish and now Lambert finds it difficult to get rid of players they either don't want or they can't afford to get rid. We have heard the talk about loyalty bonus and that players that leave without asking for a transfer will get some money from the club. It is far worse than that. According to the book, the club that want to sell a player that has not asked for a transfer are obliged to pay the remainder of the contracted wage!! The secret footballer told about once he wanted to move clubs, but did not ask for a transfer. He had 1 year left at his contract with a value at 1.4 million pounds. He managed to negotiate a loyalty bonus at 500 000 before moving to another club. When Aston Villa bough experienced players from the Premier League with wages from 40 000 a week to 60 000 a week, and we wanted to shift the players after a couple of years, we found out that: 1) The players started to get so old, so there was difficult for them to find other clubs who would pay the same or higher wages (Luke Young when turning down Liverpool, Beye, Sidwell, Warnock, Dunne, Given) 2) The players did not do well, so it was difficult to shift them to clubs that wanted to pay the wages they had at Aston Villa (Curtis Davies, Nigel Reo Coker, Marlon Harewood, Nicky Shorey) And when other clubs would not pay the same as they got at Aston Villa, I am sure that the negotiations would be tough with Villa regarding how much they should receive from Villa as a loyalty bonus. This just show how wrong on track that the club has been, and I am sure that what Paul Lambert is doing is the correct way forward. The lot of the established players with high wages and no hunger must be swapped with talent that are hungry, cheaper and most important: Can and will do the job required for Premier League. If our recruits can do so, time will tell. But I have gotten back my belief in Aston Villa Football Club. UTV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Yep, this is why Lambert doesn't want overpriced and overpaid 'experience' clogging up our finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 On FM I've had bastards who wanted a certain amount of money per week for the rest of their contract when I've tried to flog them. I expect real agents are even bigger scoundrels. The trick is to not buy utter shite from other teams in the Premier League and I'm glad we haven't. A bit risky for this season but in the long run the right approach imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hold on just one damn second. You are saying that people who have a great track record and get paid millions of pounds every year to scout and coach football players might know better what they are doing than an armchair manager who could not make his school team? Bullshit. On with the negativity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Surely the selling club only need to pay out the wages for the remainder of the contract if the buying club don't pay the same? Or is that what you're saying? Anyway, it makes perfect sense that the selling club would otherwise have to pay out. Contracts would be pretty meaningless if that wasn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hold on just one damn second. You are saying that people who have a great track record and get paid millions of pounds every year to scout and coach football players might know better what they are doing than an armchair manager who could not make his school team? Bullshit. On with the negativity! Yeah, no one ever makes mistakes or get things wrong in the world of football. Might as well close the site now. Nothing left to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hold on just one damn second. You are saying that people who have a great track record and get paid millions of pounds every year to scout and coach football players might know better what they are doing than an armchair manager who could not make his school team? Bullshit. On with the negativity! Yeah, no one ever makes mistakes or get things wrong in the world of football. Might as well close the site now. Nothing left to discuss. I would put Lambert's track record up against yours any day you would like. The bigger point is you can have plenty to say IF his signings do not work out, but you are going ON and ON about how they will not without any evidence to suggest they will or wont. So, without evidence, I am going to take the side of the Premier League manager. If you are as good as you apparently feel you are at player evaluation (I assume your strategy is looking at FM ratings?), then perhaps get out and start applying for some manager jobs. I am sure your resume will speak for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Because the players are mediocre, and overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I thought it was simply because they're shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I thought it was simply because they're shit Shit and overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I thought it was simply because they're shit Shit and overpaid. All football players are overpaid, these just happen to be completely shit too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Surely the selling club only need to pay out the wages for the remainder of the contract if the buying club don't pay the same? Or is that what you're saying? Anyway, it makes perfect sense that the selling club would otherwise have to pay out. Contracts would be pretty meaningless if that wasn't the case. No, that was the shocking part. Let me quote from The secret footballer book I am reading now: Clubs can pay you a fortune even if you aren't playing, simply to keep you on the books as an asset rather than running the risk of you leaving on a free. And this is where you will find an interesting breed of footballer - the player who regularly changes clubs. Financially thete is a fortune to be made in the Premier League just by moving clubs, and it works like this: as long as a player doesn't officially ask to leave his current club, he is legally entitled to the remainder of the value of his contract (this is nullified if you hand in a transfer request). The trick is to employ a very active agent while at the same time hiring a PR guru to keep your name in people's minds through carefully selected interviews and TV appearances. Take me. I wanted to leave a club I had signed for because I wasn't playing. Because of this my transfer value was falling and the club were desperate to realise an ever-depreciating asset. The sticking point was that I was earning £1.4m a year and had about 12 months left on my current deal. We entered into negotiations in which I told them how happy I was at the club and how I didn't want to leave. Eventually we settled on a severance fee of more than 500 000 to be paid quarterly over the following year. Now that sounds like a lot of money, probably because it is, but it saved the club from paying out more than double that sum in wages, while also securing a transfer fee on a player who was never going to play. Good business all round. And after leaving the club, I was able to name my price at the other end. I had earned around 30 000 a week at the club I had left, and so the club that wanted to sign me were going to have to get as close to this as possible, which they did. And typically, a player can expect a signing on fee of roughly 10% of the signing fee. Reading this shit makes me sick!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarjei Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I think that might be a misinformed statement, or just worded wrong. Perhaps I've gotten it wrong, but I think the loyalty bonus is agreed when signing the initial contract and paid as the years go by, but if the player is sold he is entitled to have the remaining fee of the loyalty bonus (not the remaining wages) payed out in full. If he asks for a transfer he loses that bonus. I think this is rather a case of a clever agent squeezing a club for more money by getting his client to say he doesn't want to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hold on just one damn second. You are saying that people who have a great track record and get paid millions of pounds every year to scout and coach football players might know better what they are doing than an armchair manager who could not make his school team? Bullshit. On with the negativity! Yeah, no one ever makes mistakes or get things wrong in the world of football. Might as well close the site now. Nothing left to discuss. I would put Lambert's track record up against yours any day you would like. The bigger point is you can have plenty to say IF his signings do not work out, but you are going ON and ON about how they will not without any evidence to suggest they will or wont. So, without evidence, I am going to take the side of the Premier League manager. If you are as good as you apparently feel you are at player evaluation (I assume your strategy is looking at FM ratings?), then perhaps get out and start applying for some manager jobs. I am sure your resume will speak for itself. What a ridiculous response. I've never said I know more than Lambert and I've never said that his signings won't work out, I'm concerned they won't be able to contribute enough this season. Even Sir Alex, Mourinho and Wenger get it wrong from time to time so I think its a pretty stupid attitude to dismiss any opinions if they are different to paid professionals. Like i said, ridiculous response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Just seen MOTD and looks much better than the last two games. Nice to see gabby back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hold on just one damn second. You are saying that people who have a great track record and get paid millions of pounds every year to scout and coach football players might know better what they are doing than an armchair manager who could not make his school team? Bullshit. On with the negativity! Yeah, no one ever makes mistakes or get things wrong in the world of football. Might as well close the site now. Nothing left to discuss. I would put Lambert's track record up against yours any day you would like. The bigger point is you can have plenty to say IF his signings do not work out, but you are going ON and ON about how they will not without any evidence to suggest they will or wont. So, without evidence, I am going to take the side of the Premier League manager. If you are as good as you apparently feel you are at player evaluation (I assume your strategy is looking at FM ratings?), then perhaps get out and start applying for some manager jobs. I am sure your resume will speak for itself. What a ridiculous response. I've never said I know more than Lambert and I've never said that his signings won't work out, I'm concerned they won't be able to contribute enough this season. Even Sir Alex, Mourinho and Wenger get it wrong from time to time so I think its a pretty stupid attitude to dismiss any opinions if they are different to paid professionals. Like i said, ridiculous response. No. I dismiss opinions that are based on nothing, and you are concerned for no reason. You have not seen most of the players play, and you have not seen them play here. Yet you go on and on and on and on like you know anything. You do not. TBF to you, I do not know anything either. That is why I am going to trust the person who has proven trustworthy. Hope that is not too ridiculous for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8pints Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Warnock and Hutton are going to add to an interesting January I think, but that's a long way off yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Warnock and Hutton are going to add to an interesting January I think, but that's a long way off yet. Hopefully they'll have gone on season-long loans well before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannockVillan Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I think that might be a misinformed statement, or just worded wrong. Perhaps I've gotten it wrong, but I think the loyalty bonus is agreed when signing the initial contract and paid as the years go by, but if the player is sold he is entitled to have the remaining fee of the loyalty bonus (not the remaining wages) payed out in full. If he asks for a transfer he loses that bonus. I think this is rather a case of a clever agent squeezing a club for more money by getting his client to say he doesn't want to leave.. I suspect there is simply some misinterpretation of the comments. Regarding the wages, the contract is valid and so technically the player is entitled to receive them for the remiander of the term (unless something happens to determine the contract). The secret footballer didn't get all of his remianing contract paid up. What he did was negotiate his exit on terms that both he and the club were happy (or perhaps equally unhappy with. The club transferred a player who they had no interest in playing and managed (if i interpreted correctly) to get a transfer fee out of. In return for agreeing that the player had a £500,000 payoff from the club. how this was calculated i.e. salary, bonuses etc, well only the player and his agent will know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8pints Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Warnock and Hutton are going to add to an interesting January I think, but that's a long way off yet. Hopefully they'll have gone on season-long loans well before that. Of course. Great point. I keep forgetting about the possibility of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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