Mantis Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Let's say we sack Lambert because he has had a poor start to the job results-wise after 12 games (which is laughable, but for argument's sake...). What happens when after the 4th manager in 4 years comes in, and can't really change anything (because ya know, our problems run deeper than having a poor manager)? Sack him in 12 games as well? The lack of continuity and any real direction is why we are where we are. After finally embarking on what is a long term project to push this club in the right direction, we can't even be patient after 12 games! Maybe the media is right about us. Exactly. Some have no **** patience. **** embarrassing. I have already admitted that we played well against Man U in the first half but as stated before united were also very poor and upped their game in the second half. Its not an 'Anti-Villa' position when there is an admittance that we played well its just that being so biased has clouded your judgement out of any independent views.How am I being biased? Unlike some I can at least admit when we play well and don't try and twist everything to make us look bad. No i'm not Redknapp's agent but i wish i was.So you could meet the legend himself? Again we need both quality and experience. Question. Barring injury, who would you rather have partnering Vlaar in our defence, Clark or Kompany? Both internationals and both quality players but one has more experience than the other.I'd rather have Kompany because he is clearly the better player with more quality. The comparison i made concerning where we were last year without Lambert's signings isn't invalid at all. We were higher in the table without Lambert's signings and consequently it is exactly nail on the head which you can't answer because it proves my point and thats exactly what i mean by you not answering the question directly.Of course it's invalid. Our squad was different then and so to was everyone else's squads. We also had different fixtures as well. This has got to be one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've ever seen on here. Ok then lets say that KEA wasn't Petrov's replacement. He has still been a poor signing has he not when we could have signed Diame on a free and indeed Adam, who is now playing very well at Stoke. Decent experienced Premiership quality and both of whom would have walked straight into our midfield. If your saying that KEA was signed only as a squad player then we already had Delph, Herd, Bannan, Holman, Ireland and maybe even Clark. So we didn't need another squad player in midfield, we actually needed a player who was better than what we already had and could go straight into the first team to affect games. KEA was indeed drafted into the first team but based on his performances, he has been a poor signing and we've had to blood Westwood probably a tad too soon.I don't think KEA has been poor in fact I'd argue that the problem with midfield is the players around him. Also, stop going on about Adam. He really isn't that good. I understand that managers need time to build their squads and i agree that Lambert has had to restructure the squad but he has got the balance of what was badly needed now and what was required to rebuild the club over the next few seasons wrong. What we needed was a juxtaposition of players. Experienced Premiership quality to go directly into the first team to cover our exposed weaknesses such as Ollson at LB, and both Diame and Adam for the centre of our midfield. I also would have kept Cuellar and played him alongside Vlaar. I would also have enquired about Berbatov to play in behind Bent and yes i do understand that Berbatov's wages would have been high. Even without Berbatov, with those players in our team now we would be a lot more solid allowing Lambert the luxury of introducing the likes of Benteke and Westwood with less pressure on them to hit the ground running. "Experienced Premiership quality" comes at a price and a lot of the time is overrated. We of all teams should know that after the failed O'Neill experiment. We've had this approach for years and finally somebody has come in and tried to do something about it. It's not working now but with all the changes that have gone on I'm not surprised. It will take time. Your approach is short term. Lambert's is long term. We'll see whether Lambert's long term approach works in the end but this short term, short sighted approach simply has not worked for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 "Experienced Premiership quality" comes at a price and a lot of the time is overrated. We of all teams should know that after the failed O'Neill experiment. We've had this approach for years and finally somebody has come in and tried to do something about it. It's not working now but with all the changes that have gone on I'm not surprised. It will take time. Your approach is short term. Lambert's is long term. We'll see whether Lambert's long term approach works in the end but this short term, short sighted approach simply has not worked for us. Brilliant . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 The league wasn't as polarized back when DOL first started as manager here. Outside of Man U and Arsenal the rest of the teams were pretty average. It was quite possible to have that sort of turn around then but I think it is less so now. Back in those days teams like Ipswich could get promoted then go on to finish 5th in their first season up. You couldn't imagion that happening now. maybe but Chelsea, Newcastle, Liverpool all had good teams in 03/04 and for me overall quality has dipped since then, so wouldnt be that shocking for a team to win 3 or 4 in a row and getting out of trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 ................ Given ............... Hutton, Dawson, Dunne, Riise Ince, Adam, Diame, Downing ....... Berbatov, Dempsey...... Manager: Harry Redknapp . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Two questions. firstly, how come those that didn't like Mcleish, wanted him out and didn't give him much of a chance are now moaning about a lack of patience? Secondly, how come anyone who predicted being in a relegation battle during the summer were mocked and laughed at yet being in the bottom 3 is now accepted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Two questions. firstly, how come those that didn't like Mcleish, wanted him out and didn't give him much of a chance are now moaning about a lack of patience?Because results aside the two managers have two completely different approaches. I've never understood why you seem to think it's wrong to judge managers on an individual basis. Just because somebody is against one manager doesn't mean they have to be against all other managers that follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 19, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 19, 2012 I think at this stage last season, the majority were still in the "give him a chance" boat regarding McLeish. I know I certainly was. I didn't think it would work, but I said from the start he had until January to prove himself. In fact, the chance of him coming from down the road and actually being amazing with us was quite exciting, if incredibly unlikely.(this doesn't mention the stuff I've rambled about multiple times before about the differences between the two managers (and Houllier before McLeish)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 The surrender at Spurs followed by the surrender against Man United in November/December last year was what got me against McLeish. Before that I was willing to give him time and thought the people saying we'd be in a relegation battle were being rather silly (although they turned out to be right). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 19, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 19, 2012 The game against SPurs was worse than anything we've seen this season. In fact, I'd say that was worse than anything we've seen since Doncaster away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Because results aside the two managers have two completely different approaches. I've never understood why you seem to think it's wrong to judge managers on an individual basis. Just because somebody is against one manager doesn't mean they have to be against all other managers that follow. And yet you moan about people who aren't happy or patient with lambert. I imagine Morpheus and others see lambert like you saw Mcleish. It seems you're the one who can't accept people who judge each manager differently.I think Everton at home was as bad as anything Mcleish served up. I also think winning at Stamford bridge was better than anything lambert has served up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 And yet you moan about people who aren't happy or patient with lambert. I imagine Morpheus and others see lambert like you saw Mcleish. It seems you're the one who can't accept people who judge each manager differently. Actually, people are entitled to not be happy with Lambert but I do have a problem with people calling for his head at such an early stage. Except that Lambert has done many things differently to McLeish. They're entitled to not rate him but if they see Lambert like I saw McLeish then they are wrong. How? You're the one that constantly berated me for wanting McLeish gone but being in favour of giving Houllier time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 No my issue was more to do with you blaming MoN and the players during houlliers time and then immediately blaming everything on the manager when it was Mcleish. Even though it was mostly the same players you used to excuse houllier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 No my issue was more to do with you blaming MoN and the players during houlliers time and then immediately blaming everything on the manager when it was Mcleish. Even though it was mostly the same players you used to excuse houllier. I never blamed MON entirely during Houllier's reign and I never blamed McLeish entirely either so stop putting words into my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 This is just like listening to Bolton fans who were convinced that Owen Coyle was going to be so much better than the unpopular Gary Megson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Luckily we are financially better off than Bolton to allow us to sign more players to compliment what is already here and not mirror them. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 The bigger picture looks a lot better to me than it did this time last season. This is where I am. Yes, our league position is worrying but I expect us to improve. I didn't expect that last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 You should always give a new manager a chance but we are in a dodgy place at moment add that to the last 2 seasons and no wonder fans are feeling negative. The table is scary viewing we are losing touch with the lower mid table teams already.We need results and quickly if Stoke win tonight then we are 5 points off 14 th FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 When you can't point to much factual evidence. Mention 'the bigger picture' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsid Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 In terms of improvement, which area do we need to make changes to for an immediate impact in team performance? Do we have the playing resources to do this or have we got to chug along until the window hoping not to lose contact with teams outside the drop zone? Can we improve results by altering our tactics and formations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 This is where I am. Yes, our league position is worrying but I expect us to improve. I didn't expect that last season. This time last year we were sitting comfortably in 8th with 15 points. We dropped like a stone once Bent, Petrov and Dunne got long term injuries (the spine of the team) but we were not in danger of relegation last season until Feb/March at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts