bickster Posted August 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2012 Houllier, without a shadow of a doubt. Managed to undo all of the good work done by MON leaving McLeish the legacy of a squad in turmoil. DOL became bad but started off well. Houllier hardly inherited the perfect team from MON did he? Some very good players, some very bad. I think most managers would have struggled trying to replicate what O'Neill had achieved. He had to tear it apart to rebuild it. We only saw the first half of this. At least he had a plan! It certainly didnt need tearing apart, the squad he inherited was mostly good and the bad rarely played, he turned good into bad. Dunne and Collins were a great partnership the year before, Houllier turned them shite and no matter what those two did off the field under Houllier (which was innexcuseable) that would never have happened under MON. Under MON our defence was generally good, under Houllier with the very same players, it was an utter shambles. Only one man to blame there. I also see this myth that Houllier was going to lead us eventually into playing great football and the players he bought and was going to buy some more great players still persists, where on earth does it come from, it's a fantasy, Houllier has consistently alienated players, bought huge swathes of utter shite and generally played negative long ball shite throughout his PL career as well as not developing any youth players apart from Gerrard whom he was handed on a plate. PL is the one that has to tear things up though McLeish should have done too but I'm not entirely sure it was in his brief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 This may be the silliest poll ever. The stats Show how bad McLeish was: but your username is houllierout? comedy gold! it is a interesting point regarding houllier messing up things so badly which contributed towards mcleish downfall. if mcleish took over from mon would he have been so bad? i think yes because even at the point where houllier took over we were still in turmoil after mon walked, then getting thumped at newcastle and a embarassing defeat to vienna. i think mcleish was just plain out awful and for me worst manager ever for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammy Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 It certainly didnt need tearing apart, the squad he inherited was mostly good and the bad rarely played, he turned good into bad. Dunne and Collins were a great partnership the year before, Houllier turned them shite and no matter what those two did off the field under Houllier (which was innexcuseable) that would never have happened under MON. Under MON our defence was generally good, under Houllier with the very same players, it was an utter shambles. Only one man to blame there. I also see this myth that Houllier was going to lead us eventually into playing great football and the players he bought and was going to buy some more great players still persists, where on earth does it come from, it's a fantasy, Houllier has consistently alienated players, bought huge swathes of utter shite and generally played negative long ball shite throughout his PL career as well as not developing any youth players apart from Gerrard whom he was handed on a plate. PL is the one that has to tear things up though McLeish should have done too but I'm not entirely sure it was in his brief. Probably a fair point about the defence. The same players seemed to go downhill fast. But I'm convinced things would have got better if he'd stuck around. He'd lined up Cabaye for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houllierout Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 This may be the silliest poll ever. The stats Show how bad McLeish was: but your username is houllierout? comedy gold! Didnt realise that Lerner would be thick enough to pick someone worse. How wrong i was..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I think fans are a little harsh on Houllier. He inherited a good first 11 from MON but the squad itself was still way too small and lacked quality. If MON had suffered the same injuries as Houllier I have no doubt we would have struggled then also. The run at the end of Houllier's term which saw us finish 9th showed that when players were fit we played good football. Mcleish was just a disaster from the beginning to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 McLeish was the most soul-destroying manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Why do threads like this pop up still Do people revel in pain going over old ground ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 McLeish is the only answer here. Subjectively he is easily the worst of the three. Houllier, without a shadow of a doubt. Managed to undo all of the good work done by MON leaving McLeish the legacy of a squad in turmoil. DOL became bad but started off well. Yep, this. I think if McLeish had taken over when Houllier did he would have done better a job. But I'm very glad both are gone, obviously. You seriously think McLeish would have got us higher than 9th? He's a dreadful dreadful manager. He's proven that everywhere he's been. Although our squad was better in 10/11 it certainly wasn't 7 places better. The scary thing is, if we'd done as poorly in 10/11 as we did last season, we'd have been relegated. How can McLeish not be the worst of those three? Despite having a much better squad here than at SHA he still managed to actually do worse here. Bearing this in mind I think it's highly doubtful that we would've finished anywhere near the top 10 if he had been in charge in 10/11. I also don't buy this argument that it was Houllier that made things bad for McLeish. Ok 10/11 was a poor season (despite finishing 9th) and Houllier alienated certain players but surely then that would've made McLeish's job easier, as he would have benefited from increased morale simply because he wasn't Houllier? Clearly not, because even at the beginning of the season we weren't exactly playing that well. It only got worse as the season went on. The likes of Collins, Dunne and Warnock are just poor players. It wasn't a case of Houllier making them bad, but rather MON making them perform above their level (because he's such a good motivator). I think that's pretty clear now considering they were all shit under two different managers. Obviously having Young and Downing sold was a blow but it's not like he didn't get money to spend. You would expect us to not do as well after losing those players but I don't think many expected us to be as bad as we were. I just find it absolutely baffling how anyone can say that Houllier or DOL did worse than McLeish. I've been supporting Villa for 15 years (admittedly not a lot by comparison to most on here) and there is no Villa manager that I've seen in those 15 years that comes anywhere close to McLeish in terms of shitness. He's in a league of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 McLeish is the only answer here. Subjectively he is easily the worst of the three. Houllier, without a shadow of a doubt. Managed to undo all of the good work done by MON leaving McLeish the legacy of a squad in turmoil. DOL became bad but started off well. Yep, this. I think if McLeish had taken over when Houllier did he would have done better a job. But I'm very glad both are gone, obviously. You seriously think McLeish would have got us higher than 9th? No, I think he would have done better than 16th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2012 Houllier didn't get us to 9th, when he was taken ill we were under serious threat of relegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Houllier was stupid and stubborn. I backed him but he changed things too soon and when failed didnt revert to tried and tested way. Also no matter how bad McLeish was the Anfield debacle was one of the most disgusting thing I have seen in on or off the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 For what it's worth GED was the worst for the contempt arrogance and total disrespect shown to the club and fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 McLeish is the only answer here. Subjectively he is easily the worst of the three. Houllier, without a shadow of a doubt. Managed to undo all of the good work done by MON leaving McLeish the legacy of a squad in turmoil. DOL became bad but started off well. Yep, this. I think if McLeish had taken over when Houllier did he would have done better a job. But I'm very glad both are gone, obviously. You seriously think McLeish would have got us higher than 9th? No, I think he would have done better than 16th. Probably, but how much better? Surely for him to be better than Houllier he would've had to have got us 9th or higher in the 10/11 season? I think we'd have done better but only marginally better. As I said, he managed to do worse in the PL here than at SHA despite the obvious gap in quality. Houllier didn't get us to 9th, when he was taken ill we were under serious threat of relegationWhen he was taken ill we were no longer serious contenders for relegation. Outsiders yes, but not serious contenders. Even when Houllier was taken ill (in April) we had already amassed more points than McLeish did in his entire season. Not a massive achievement I know, just pointing out that McLeish was worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted August 3, 2012 Houllier's Anfield incident wasn't as bad as McLeish's White Hart Lane incident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2012 For what it's worth GED was the worst for the contempt arrogance and total disrespect shown to the club and fans Agreed and DOL took some beating on that score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Personally I think McLeish was the worst of the lot for disrespecting the club, but I'm probably in the minority here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 It's strange that we have a negative thread like this when things are looking positive. Must be something in Villa fans' psyche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 It always sends a shiver down my spine when I recall the press conference for mcleish , I remember thinking at the time that the coming season was going to be a tough one. I believe my thoughts then were underestimated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 PL is the one that has to tear things up though McLeish should have done too but I'm not entirely sure it was in his brief. Great points bickster. Even if it was in McLeish's brief, I don't think for one minute that he would have been capable of doing anything other than he did. The stats don't lie. It seemed the whole world but Lerner and Faulkner knew that Eck was a recipe for relegation from the get go. It was a miracle that we avoided it and that wasn't anything to do with Eck. it was just that teams below us played a fraction worse than we did. Houillier of course inherited a disaster in action. Anyone watching us play under MON in that game agaist Villareal could have seen that MON had lost the plot for whatever reason and with Milner leaving it was obvious that we were a team in decline. Of course with MON jilting us just before the season started it would have taken a Superhuman manager to have turned things around. Houillier IMHO was a legend in his eyes only and really didn't have the strength , the management skills or the personnel on the admin side or the playing staff to be able to turn a sows ear into a silk purse. Trying to teach the likes of Dunne and Collins to play pretty passing football was a sad joke. His tendency to wash the dirty laundry in public earned him zero respect from the players . Houilliers task was not aided by Robert Duverne as fitness coach and Pires adorning our bench for big money and zero contribution. It truly was a French Farce and none of us got the joke. DOL does well in this poll by default, which is what he probably says about the wages he has been receiving from us and Al-Ahli Dubai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 GED gave the impression from day 1 that he didn't want te job, that it was beneath him, that we were lucky to have him I hated his mannerism in press dealings, it was just a horrible time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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