KHV Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 KEA is filling the Petrov role, another playing that was seriously underrated on here. I think KEA is a poor mans Petrov, he hasnt impressed me much I must say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think we should allow KEA a bit of time to grow into the role. I like him as he's a brave player, never afraid to show for the ball or put a tackle in. Yes there's room for improvement but he's a grafter and right now I'll take that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Well your last sentence is exactly what I mean. He may well have to go and play that role because of a lack of anyone else to do it. Ireland would be the natural player to play the attacking role (and it's no surprise that ireland has been on the pitch for our best performances, imo) and I'd expect to see him straight back into the team when he's fit. Bannan I assume was also supposed to play that role, but he just hasn't performed so far this season (again, imo) So yeah, KEA isn't making enough penetrative passes to be playing that position. But if that isn't his position, then is that his fault? We were crying out for both. We've had a shite defence for 2 seasons now, and we lost our only good DM to a horrible illness, probably permanently. You don't think getting in another CM to help solidify that leaky defence was high on the agenda? Yeah mate should have said players instead of 'player.' I totally agree that we needed both an attacking and defensive midfielder but on performances so far KEA is neither and thats what i meant to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think he is a bog standard average player He will always give 6 - 7 star ratings in a game but never an 8 or a 9 He's probably been our only consistant centre mid we need quality alongside him someone looking to do the dirty work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yeah mate should have said players instead of 'player.' I totally agree that we needed both an attacking and defensive midfielder but on performances so far KEA is neither and thats what i meant to say. Fair enough. I think he can/is a DM, in the same sort of mould as petrov. i.e. not a NIgel De Jong style destroyer, more of a player that reads the game rather than crunches in with huge tackles. But I think a player alongside him who can do the attacking is what he needs. As has been talked around in this topic, he isn't an AM, but he appears to be doing some of the work at the moment. Hopefully, if Stephen Ireland or whoeevr else can stick to the AMC role it'll leave KEA free to concentrate on his defensive game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think he's still trying to adjust to the speed and quality of the league...I think he'll get better and better. He's already scored one of the best goals of the season, by any player in the whole league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2012 He really hasn't to be honest. I think Tim Howard would have been very disappointed that he let that in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2012 can't believe there's voices against him to be honest. he covers the hard yards every week, wins the ball back and doesn't give it away. what's not to like in a defensive midfielder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 He really hasn't to be honest. I think Tim Howard would have been very disappointed that he let that in I think the swerve on the ball had Howard moving in the wrong direction at first. Good pace and power on the ball too, so for me it was more a well hit ball than a mistake by Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentingthereslowly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 can't believe there's voices against him to be honest. he covers the hard yards every week, wins the ball back and doesn't give it away. what's not to like in a defensive midfielder? The fact that we are getting run through midfield time and time again despite the fact that we have 3 players playing centrally in Delph, him and holman. He isnt a defensive midfielder. A defensive midfielder is Nigel De Jong, Essien, Makele. Cattermole is a better ball winner for gods sake. Hes a deep lying midfielder if anything at the moment except without the passing range of a Arteta, carrick, huddlestone or James McCarthy. Theres a massive difference between these two midfield positions. He plays short 5 yard passes backwards, sideways and occasionally forwards. He never pings a ball to feet of Holman, Gabby or others to facilitate a quick break. Delph has clearly been told to sit deeper when hes started with him and the gap KEA is leaving between himself and Holman when we have the ball is far too large. If we break slowly with these 5 yard passes it gives opposition time to scurry back and get shape to defend, if this is the way hes going to play he needs to get higher up the pitch to support holman in attack as we become overrun in attack by their players who have retreated. Seen it time and time again and the move breaks down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Once Ireland is back I think a midfield of: --------------KEA-------------- Albrighton----------Holman ------------Ireland------------- will be pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted October 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2012 Once Ireland is back I think a midfield of: --------------KEA-------------- Albrighton----------Holman ------------Ireland------------- will be pretty decent. Still just looks a bit too weak for me. Think we'd be better of playing... ------ KEA ---- Bannan -------- Alrighton --Ireland --- Holman ----------------Bent -------------- With Albrighton and Holman pushing forward more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2012 The fact that we are getting run through midfield time and time again despite the fact that we have 3 players playing centrally in Delph, him and holman. He isnt a defensive midfielder. A defensive midfielder is Nigel De Jong, Essien, Makele. Cattermole is a better ball winner for gods sake. Hes a deep lying midfielder if anything at the moment except without the passing range of a Arteta, carrick, huddlestone or James McCarthy. Theres a massive difference between these two midfield positions. He plays short 5 yard passes backwards, sideways and occasionally forwards. He never pings a ball to feet of Holman, Gabby or others to facilitate a quick break. Delph has clearly been told to sit deeper when hes started with him and the gap KEA is leaving between himself and Holman when we have the ball is far too large. If we break slowly with these 5 yard passes it gives opposition time to scurry back and get shape to defend, if this is the way hes going to play he needs to get higher up the pitch to support holman in attack as we become overrun in attack by their players who have retreated. Seen it time and time again and the move breaks down. i don't think cattermole is a better ball winner, KEA is a pretty good ball winner in my opinion, has a great engine and always presses when we don't have the ball and has a very good tackle on him. comparing him to makele and essien is a little unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentingthereslowly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 i don't think cattermole is a better ball winner, KEA is a pretty good ball winner in my opinion, has a great engine and always presses when we don't have the ball and has a very good tackle on him. comparing him to makele and essien is a little unfair. Your right. Comparing to those is very unfair so for the purposes of demonstration I have included a couple of players playing at what id consider our level at the moment in similar positions (included Arteta for good measure). note these are per game average stats Tackles Passes Dribbles Schneiderlin (Southampton) 4.8 53.8 .2 Faurlin (QPR) 3.8 69.5 0 Granaro (QPR) 2.8 51.4 .8 Bradley Johnson (Norwich) 2.9 46.3 .9 Mikel leigertwood (Reading) 2.8 42.4 .1 James Mccarthy (Wigan) 3.1 52 .2 James McArther (Wigan) 3.7 56.8 .5 Nzonzi (stoke) 3.3 39 .3 Claudio Jacob (West Brom) 3.7 45.9 .1 Arteta (Arsenal) 4.6 94 1.7 Karim El Ahamidi (Aston Villa) 2.3 47.4 .4 The majority of the above are not from top tier teams. I feel for useful comparison we should compare him only against opposition players and not our own because the point im making is not that he isnt better than what we have, but that so far he hasn't been up to scratch. I see peoples point about allowing for time but based on the above, anyone that thinks hes been great so far needs to consider what similar opposition players are doing as these are who he is competing with on a weekly basis. KEA has the worst tackling statistics versus all of the above. Missing the mark significantly. This highlights his defensive frailties i eluded to earlier. Has only marginally outscored 4 of the above on the passing stakes. Not what I expect to see from our great link man (delph actually outscores him on this and pass accuracy). He does outscore a number of dribbles but this isnt exactly what he is there for. The list above isn't exhaustive obviously but for me it highlights he hasnt been "great for us" is underperforming in line with his competitors and more is needed from him week in week out like everybody else. Apologies for formatting, harder than expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2012 I was going to pipe up earlier to say people are confusing "tackler" with "ball winner". I'd be interested to see some interception stats. (I'm not saying they'll be any better. I'm genuinely curious. As I eluded to before, Busquets is the best ball winner in the world, but I bet he doesn't make that many tackles in a game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentingthereslowly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I was going to pipe up earlier to say people are confusing "tackler" with "ball winner". I'd be interested to see some interception stats. (I'm not saying they'll be any better. I'm genuinely curious. As I eluded to before, Busquets is the best ball winner in the world, but I bet he doesn't make that many tackles in a game) Shouldnt of opened the stats can of worms.... in fairness his are ok 2.3 but still significantly behind Schneiderlin (4.3) Macarthur, Arteta, Leigerwood and only marginally ahead of Nzonzi, Faurlin and Granero and a key point to note here being KEA is our second highest for interception whilst the people he placed above, named above are further down the list in their respective clubs lists on the interception front. Before people say it im not blinded by stats and know there are other aspects to peoples games but do see them as useful for comparison in this situation. BTW Schneiderlin looks like a right player on paper and has been decent anytime ive seen him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I like him.Has good pace, plays the simple ball, closes down well, starting to be a key player.The problems are in front of him.Gabby, Holman, N'Zog, Albrighton, Ireland, haven't been creative enough.One or two of them need to step up.Keep playing KEA and Delph together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2012 Your right. Comparing to those is very unfair so for the purposes of demonstration I have included a couple of players playing at what id consider our level at the moment in similar positions (included Arteta for good measure). note these are per game average stats Tackles Passes Dribbles Schneiderlin (Southampton) 4.8 53.8 .2 Faurlin (QPR) 3.8 69.5 0 Granaro (QPR) 2.8 51.4 .8 Bradley Johnson (Norwich) 2.9 46.3 .9 Mikel leigertwood (Reading) 2.8 42.4 .1 James Mccarthy (Wigan) 3.1 52 .2 James McArther (Wigan) 3.7 56.8 .5 Nzonzi (stoke) 3.3 39 .3 Claudio Jacob (West Brom) 3.7 45.9 .1 Arteta (Arsenal) 4.6 94 1.7 Karim El Ahamidi (Aston Villa) 2.3 47.4 .4 The majority of the above are not from top tier teams. I feel for useful comparison we should compare him only against opposition players and not our own because the point im making is not that he isnt better than what we have, but that so far he hasn't been up to scratch. I see peoples point about allowing for time but based on the above, anyone that thinks hes been great so far needs to consider what similar opposition players are doing as these are who he is competing with on a weekly basis. KEA has the worst tackling statistics versus all of the above. Missing the mark significantly. This highlights his defensive frailties i eluded to earlier. Has only marginally outscored 4 of the above on the passing stakes. Not what I expect to see from our great link man (delph actually outscores him on this and pass accuracy). He does outscore a number of dribbles but this isnt exactly what he is there for. The list above isn't exhaustive obviously but for me it highlights he hasnt been "great for us" is underperforming in line with his competitors and more is needed from him week in week out like everybody else. Apologies for formatting, harder than expected interesting reading, but even the above stats don't scream out that he's out of his depth at this level. i'd expect his stats, along with the rest of the squad to improve though as PL gets them performing better as a unit. anyway, i like him and things woudl be a hell of a lot worse in the middle of the park for us without him! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Those stats mean very little tbh What in earth does 0.2 dribbles mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentingthereslowly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Those stats mean very little tbh What in earth does 0.2 dribbles mean ? Dribbles perhaps not, aim was to show he isnt driving us forward by carrying the ball. What stats would you use? I personally think passing and tacklng are very important in the role he has been tasked with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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