Karim El Ahmadi

[Adbo9]

i just wish people would stop saying Tiki-Taka totally........ its **** gay

[VillaAlex]

Tippy tappy passes? I presume these are the same people that say Spain are boring and Xabi Alonso type of players offer nothing but a few neat passes?

Except when they do it, the ball invariably ends up as an attacking threat rather than being passed around the defence and midfield without every troubling the opposition

It's not hard to see/understand the difference between the two examples really is it ?

Yet 38% of KEA's passes were forward compare that to:-

Toure 23%

Arteta 24%

Scholes 23%

Errr......

Ay ay!!

First match of the season and the first outbreak of selective quoting of stats!

How am I being selective? I responded to a fact about 'tiki-taka' being no good if its sidewards and backwards so I posted the statistics to how many forward passes he made.

If you read the article you're quoting from in full, you come across the following:

Final Third Passes

Where do the passes really matter though? They matter most in the final third of the pitch so lets see who is topping the final third passes:

Two Premier League newcomers announce their arrival by going straight into the Top Five. Shinji Kagawa comes in at fourth with 37 final third passes whilst Santi Cazorla is Top with 40 passes and a 90% accuracy in the final third. Further more impressive are the total proportion of passes in the Final 3rd (FH%); 48% of Shinji’s passes were in the Final Third whilst 47% of Santi’s total passes were in the Final third. So almost half of their passes were in attacking positions – an excellent start to the side.

Yaya Toure, Adel Taarabt and Samir Nasri are also in the Top 5 and Nasri’s accuracy was the best at 94% of his final third passes accurate.

So this bit does rather confirm the impression of some that KEA was spraying nice passes around but nowhere near the danger area and with little ultimate effect. It also suggests it is totally misleading to imply that KEA's performance was better than Toure's.

Where did I imply that KEA's performance was better than Toure's briny, come on tell me where in such a short post???? I am looking but I really can't see anything. I just listed KEA's forward passes in comparison to the others in that list.

Now, Lambert knows this was a problem for us on Saturday and has said so very clearly. So why the need to present the match as if losing at Upton Park was a promising start?

Again where have I presented the match as if losing was a promising start, wow you like to make up things I've never said to make your point.

I thought KEA looked OK on Saturday but he shared with the rest of the team the general problem of not knowing how to get forward and actually create an attacking threat. I'm sure this will improve but until it does let's at least be honest about the problem.

How about you constructively respond to a post without trying to make out that I have said certain things to try and support your point...

[briny_ear]

Sorry, x2 post, no idea why.

[briny_ear]

How are you being selective?

By quoting some stats to support your argument that were taken out of context from the analysis in which they were being presented and so gave a different impression of what the stats actually show.

Cripes, I don't think I can make it much clearer.

Oh, BTW:

Where did I imply that KEA's performance was better than Toure's briny?

Um, here, I thought!:

Yet 38% of KEA's passes were forward compare that to:-

Toure 23%

[Skruff]

Stupid stats. Can't you guys at least wait half a year so the stats that you post actually represent a median value or an average?

[VillaAlex]

How are you being selective?

By quoting some stats to support your argument that were taken out of context from the analysis in which they were being presented and so gave a different impression of what the stats actually show.

Cripes, I don't think I can make it much clearer.

Oh, BTW:

Where did I imply that KEA's performance was better than Toure's briny?

Um, here, I thought!:

Yet 38% of KEA's passes were forward compare that to:-

Toure 23%

'Performance was better' is not a higher percentage of forward passes. Cripes, I don't think it can be much clearer.

[Pelle]

Reading the two last pages of this thread makes me wonder whether some understand that a good attacking play isn't just about the one who passes the ball. The players without the ball are far more important. If they move around creating space for each other and open up the defence it's a little bit easier to pass the ball to someone in a dangerous position. We lacked that movement very much in the last 1/3 of the pitch against wham. Not much to do with KEA. He couldn't pass the ball to anyone in a good attacking position as they were almost never there.

[CI]

El Ahmadi and Ireland are doing fine)

On what planet ? They were totally ineffective Saturday and most of pre season. It needs to be different

[ozvillafan]

Reading the two last pages of this thread makes me wonder whether some understand that a good attacking play isn't just about the one who passes the ball. The players without the ball are far more important. If they move around creating space for each other and open up the defence it's a little bit easier to pass the ball to someone in a dangerous position. We lacked that movement very much in the last 1/3 of the pitch against wham. Not much to do with KEA. He couldn't pass the ball to anyone in a good attacking position as they were almost never there.

It's obvious you are not English - which is a good thing.

We've had English managers always, apart from Venglos and Houllier. They always play an English style, which is more about effort, graft, individual effort and speed than tactics, teamwork and possession.

In the last 18 years I have been following Villa, this has pretty much been the way we play.

Now that we are adapting to a different passing/possession style (at last!), you can expect a lot of backlash from those who think the old English style is the only way to play football.

Of course, they'll come out and deny it - but their lack of patience (its 1 game!) belies them.

[villan_007]

El Ahmadi and Ireland are doing fine)

On what planet ? They were totally ineffective Saturday and most of pre season. It needs to be different

Agree about Ireland, but bringing KEA into the same boat is utter shite, did his job very well, and impressed.

[briny_ear]

We've had English managers always, apart from Venglos and Houllier. They always play an English style, which is more about effort, graft, individual effort and speed than tactics, teamwork and possession.

In the last 18 years I have been following Villa, this has pretty much been the way we play.

Now that we are adapting to a different passing/possession style (at last!), you can expect a lot of backlash from those who think the old English style is the only way to play football.

Of course, they'll come out and deny it - but their lack of patience (its 1 game!) belies them.

We've had quite a lot of Scottish managers as well, and recently one very controversial one from Northern Ireland. Does your definition of "English" include people from these countries? If so, fine, but do be a little careful if you are ever visiting Edinburgh, Belfast etc.

Now for the really puzzling bit. Our current manager is Scottish ("English" in your terms I guess). So what exactly is your point?

[Mantis]

We've had English managers always, apart from Venglos and Houllier. They always play an English style, which is more about effort, graft, individual effort and speed than tactics, teamwork and possession.

In the last 18 years I have been following Villa, this has pretty much been the way we play.

Now that we are adapting to a different passing/possession style (at last!), you can expect a lot of backlash from those who think the old English style is the only way to play football.

Of course, they'll come out and deny it - but their lack of patience (its 1 game!) belies them.

We've had quite a lot of Scottish managers as well, and recently one very controversial one from Northern Ireland. Does your definition of "English" include people from these countries? If so, fine, but do be a little careful if you are ever visiting Edinburgh, Belfast etc.

Now for the really puzzling bit. Our current manager is Scottish ("English" in your terms I guess). So what exactly is your point?

I think he meant British.

[P3te]

'Performance was better' is not a higher percentage of forward passes. Cripes, I don't think it can be much clearer.

don't you know how VT works at this stage? if someone says anything about one player, and compares it to the same thing of another player, you're taken as saying that the player with the better "something" is a much better player. it's nonsense

like if you said that player x had more shots on target in a certain game than messi did in a game against that same team, you're taken as saying player x is better than messi

that coupled with the constant doom and gloom here, plus the bizarrely overriding view that we need to be a better footballing side, but if we don't do it on the first day under the new manager, we're shite and trying to play pointless tippy tappy, has this place in shite lately

[P3te]

We've had English managers always, apart from Venglos and Houllier. They always play an English style, which is more about effort, graft, individual effort and speed than tactics, teamwork and possession.

In the last 18 years I have been following Villa, this has pretty much been the way we play.

Now that we are adapting to a different passing/possession style (at last!), you can expect a lot of backlash from those who think the old English style is the only way to play football.

Of course, they'll come out and deny it - but their lack of patience (its 1 game!) belies them.

We've had quite a lot of Scottish managers as well, and recently one very controversial one from Northern Ireland. Does your definition of "English" include people from these countries? If so, fine, but do be a little careful if you are ever visiting Edinburgh, Belfast etc.

Now for the really puzzling bit. Our current manager is Scottish ("English" in your terms I guess). So what exactly is your point?

I think he meant British.

not too sure MON or DOL would be all that happy about being called british tbh

[P3te]

El Ahmadi and Ireland are doing fine)

On what planet ? They were totally ineffective Saturday and most of pre season. It needs to be different

both are footballers, and both are technically very proficient. but they can't get the ball and pick themselves out making a smart run unfortunately. they need more movement from their teammates

something which we actually look like we're improving quite a bit at the moment. they'll both be very, very effective players when the other members of the team catch up

[P3te]

El Ahmadi and Ireland are doing fine)

On what planet ? They were totally ineffective Saturday and most of pre season. It needs to be different

both are footballers, and both are technically very proficient. but they can't get the ball and pick themselves out making a smart run unfortunately. they need more movement from their teammates

something which we actually look like we're improving quite a bit at the moment. they'll both be very, very effective players when the other members of the team catch up

[Mantis]

We've had English managers always, apart from Venglos and Houllier. They always play an English style, which is more about effort, graft, individual effort and speed than tactics, teamwork and possession.

In the last 18 years I have been following Villa, this has pretty much been the way we play.

Now that we are adapting to a different passing/possession style (at last!), you can expect a lot of backlash from those who think the old English style is the only way to play football.

Of course, they'll come out and deny it - but their lack of patience (its 1 game!) belies them.

We've had quite a lot of Scottish managers as well, and recently one very controversial one from Northern Ireland. Does your definition of "English" include people from these countries? If so, fine, but do be a little careful if you are ever visiting Edinburgh, Belfast etc.

Now for the really puzzling bit. Our current manager is Scottish ("English" in your terms I guess). So what exactly is your point?

I think he meant British.

not too sure MON or DOL would be all that happy about being called british tbh

MON is British. Forgot about DOL though, I guess he just meant British and Irish then.

[P3te]

We've had English managers always, apart from Venglos and Houllier. They always play an English style, which is more about effort, graft, individual effort and speed than tactics, teamwork and possession.

In the last 18 years I have been following Villa, this has pretty much been the way we play.

Now that we are adapting to a different passing/possession style (at last!), you can expect a lot of backlash from those who think the old English style is the only way to play football.

Of course, they'll come out and deny it - but their lack of patience (its 1 game!) belies them.

We've had quite a lot of Scottish managers as well, and recently one very controversial one from Northern Ireland. Does your definition of "English" include people from these countries? If so, fine, but do be a little careful if you are ever visiting Edinburgh, Belfast etc.

Now for the really puzzling bit. Our current manager is Scottish ("English" in your terms I guess). So what exactly is your point?

I think he meant British.

not too sure MON or DOL would be all that happy about being called british tbh

MON is British. Forgot about DOL though, I guess he just meant British and Irish then.

not actually sure if mon is british or not. he doesnt strike me as the type to hold a british passport, given that he speaks gaeilge and likes GAA

[Mantis]

We've had English managers always, apart from Venglos and Houllier. They always play an English style, which is more about effort, graft, individual effort and speed than tactics, teamwork and possession.

In the last 18 years I have been following Villa, this has pretty much been the way we play.

Now that we are adapting to a different passing/possession style (at last!), you can expect a lot of backlash from those who think the old English style is the only way to play football.

Of course, they'll come out and deny it - but their lack of patience (its 1 game!) belies them.

We've had quite a lot of Scottish managers as well, and recently one very controversial one from Northern Ireland. Does your definition of "English" include people from these countries? If so, fine, but do be a little careful if you are ever visiting Edinburgh, Belfast etc.

Now for the really puzzling bit. Our current manager is Scottish ("English" in your terms I guess). So what exactly is your point?

I think he meant British.

not too sure MON or DOL would be all that happy about being called british tbh

MON is British. Forgot about DOL though, I guess he just meant British and Irish then.

not actually sure if mon is british or not. he doesnt strike me as the type to hold a british passport, given that he speaks gaeilge and likes GAA

He's Northern Irish is he not?

[Dr_Pangloss]

El Ahmadi looks a better version of Petrov, he's a water-carrier that likes to try and dictate the tempo, he's not a creative player and isn't going to be playing many defence splitting passes, it's not his game.