sonic_bouma Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 One of the biggest talking points for me now we are out of the tournament is Ashley Young's performances... I am never one to scapegoat individual players because i think you are as good as the team around you in many cases... however i feel this tournament is a bit unique in that many of our players performed brilliantly, leaving a few major underperformers... we could also point our finger at Rooney but perhaps his fitness was a big factor... therefore i want to focus on Ashley Young who we all know much better... a good season for Man Utd, fully fit, things were looking good for him to step up for England... and then we saw his performances... so i ask you....Was it Hodgsons tactics? or Was it the man himself?... for me its the latter...i'd be interested to here peoples opinions on his performances..... i wrote this in the other thread.. " i'm still a big admirer of Roy and i think his performance as manager was excellent in this tournament.... in a short space of time he has united a team and implanted a fantastic team spirit... our defence was the best in the tournament IMO and will be a superb building block for the World Cup (albeit some concerns over Terry and Coles age maybe)... i though his substitutions were pro active and made at the right time and the right players were chosen..... if the media get the knives out for Roy i'd be really disappointed.... the people i would like to see criticised are the players.... I would praise our whole back 4, parker, gerrard, milner and get a big **** axe out for the rest of the "my headphones are bigger than yours crew"... Rooney was utter shite, Welbeck offered nothing but Ashley Young?.... this was his tournament to shine, his moment to step up on the international stage after showing glimpses in friendlies.... and he **** BOTTLED IT.... he's one of the most cocky arrogant pricks off the pitch, swaggering around with massive headphones on acting the **** big man.... yet it was comes to real balls, real courage and real strength of character...well my 4 year old niece has more.... he was a nervous wreck throughout the whole tournament, refusing to take players on misplacing every pass.... before the penalties last night i turned to my mate and said "if there is one player who will miss a penalty it will be Young"... and he didn't let me down....Cole i can forgive because he had a fanatstic tourno and wheres his heart on his sleeve.... Young should sit the whole England squad down (minus Rooney and Welbeck) and apologise for his lack of effort, lack of courage, lack of mental strength and lack of character..... if you want a scapegoat media then look no further than the biggest con artist in the world Ashley **** Young. " Rant Over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 25, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not sure this warranted it's own thread. But yes he's had a poor tournament. BUt Rooney was more at fault yesterday than Young. And I don't think you can blame a team's underperformance on an attacking winger. Quarter finals is about our level. And our weaknesses that stop us progressing are a lot bigger and deeper than Ashley Young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It's a shame for Young because he was so well loved before the tournament. No, wait, he's a diving little cheat and if anyone has to take the blame for England going out than I'd much sooner it was him over a decent professional like Milner. Though that does remind me, Milner was one of the best penalty takers I'd ever seen when he was at Villa, he should have gone up ahead of Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Abysmal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Players like Young, Milner, Johnson, Walcott, Sturridge, need game time. Whilst playing for a top club gives you the chance to win medals, you aren't going to play most games. As a result you're not going to be as good as you could be and in some of the cases above won't get in the England side. Hope Young does well for United this year but a la Milner he may become a top 4 benchwarmer in the coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Rooney was extremely poor and deserves a lot of criticism and me focusing on Young doesn't mean i think he is to blame for our underperformance but he is front of the queue for criticism IMO, even before he took the penalty... the amount of times i had to sit next to may mates slagging Milner off, calling him shit because he wasn't taking players on and whipping crosses in....it was painful...Milner did exactly what he was asked to do and did the best he could playing out of position...we all know he is not a winger.... but Hodgson was relying on Young to be the real creative force, to track back yes, but when he had the ball to take players on, pick a defence splitting pass, get to the byline, deliver a good cross or at the very least pass to a team mate... that was why he was taken to the tournament and he didn't do it ONCE.... we've seen how arrogant and devious he can be first hand and its too early to write him off but i don't think he will ever perform at international level and he certainly will not be a player that we can rely on in big tournaments... he hasn't got the mental strength or the maturity....compare him to Gerrard or Parker in terms of application, professionalism and strength of character and he looks like a little boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think some of the reaction to Young has been disgraceful, yes he had a poor tournament but so did many others, we had the ball and didn't know what to do with it, the biggest thing that infuriates me is no movement. We now need to build our side around Wilshire Rodwell and Barkley, these kids are our hopes to progress. As for Ashley, he was a great servant, he is probably feeling like shit now, but hey he'll come back from it, good players do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Never was confident when he took pens for us. The miss against Bolton when 2-1 in front of the Villa fans, then going to to lose that game 2-3 was such a kick in the teeth. I was properly sick after that game. He must talk the talk pretty well in those situations, but oft does not walk the walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 yes he had a poor tournament but so did many others. many others? I can only think of Rooney and maybe Welbeck.... everybody else was brilliant and performed the job they had been given very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Are you watching the same tournament as me they were shit, what did Milner do that Ash didn't? Tell me he just ran up and down the line and he worked hard which Young did. People are banging on about the defence, yes it looks good when you do last ditch defending. Rooney, Carrol, Wellbeck, Walcott yesterday, what did he do? A stat came yesterday that our highest person with passes yesterday was Ashley Cole, says it all for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 He must talk the talk pretty well in those situations, but often does not walk the walk. this is my biggest gripe with him...he's a world beater in his head.... there is no way he should have been on that penalty list... we would have more success IMO if penalty takers were picked on their mental strength and calmness under pressure.... look at Pirlo...there was no way he was gonna miss that penalty and to score it the way he did just epitomises his calm mentality.... Gerrard, Parker (shouldn't have been taken off), Milner, Rooney and Hart should have been the penalty takers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hart for a penalty! Jesus we must be desperate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 MIlner did a lot of running but was awful in possession and was as bad as Young even his diving was found out. back 7 for England was immense, going forward was disappointing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Are you watching the same tournament as me they were shit, what did Milner do that Ash didn't? He did everything he could when you consider his capabilities. Should we expect Milner to take on a player, dribble quickly down the line and whip a ball in? No we shouldn't. Why? coz he doesn't have it in his locker. Why do you think Milner played ahead of Downing, Walcott and Chamberlain? because he is terrific at what he did ALL tournament...get up and down the line and provide Johnson with protection. Now what should we expect of Young? Get up and down the line? Yes. Protect Cole? When necessary but nowhere near as much as Milner needed to with Johnson. Take players on, whip a good cross in, use his pace, complete a pass to a team mate? Hell **** yes...and did he do that once? did he bollocks.... People are banging on about the defence, yes it looks good when you do last ditch defending. Does it? Villa are the masters of last ditch defending and our defence looks shit. People are banging on about it because our defence was superb. Rooney, Carrol, Wellbeck, Walcott yesterday, what did he do?. I've said Rooney isn't blameless or Wellbeck.....i thought Carroll held the ball up well but did little else... and Walcott? his contribution to the tournament was 10x that of Ashely Young and he did it with half the amount of time on the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Strangely he seemed as though he was lacking in confidence to me which is not something you'd associate with Young. Last night it was unbelievable how many times he gave the ball away although having said that every time he got the ball he seemed to be deep in his own half and with few options in terms of who to pass to. The only decent thing I think he did last night was that he put in a good defensive shift but that should not have been his role. In all fairness Hodgson dropped a bollock leaving him on. He should have came off for Walcott but it seemed as though regardless of who was and wasn't performing it was already decided that Walcott would again replace Milner. I also don't agree that the majority of the players performed well in this tournament. Overall apart from brief spells in each of the group games we were poor. Our ball retention was crap and whilst many players put in good shifts in terms of effort the overall quality was poor. We are light years behind Germany and Spain and a fair way off the likes of Portugal and Italy. I think we have some very good players but for whatever reason we fail to look like a team which is highlighted by the fact our ball retention is poor and we can't seem to consistently string anymore than half a dozen passes together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Strangely he seemed as though he was lacking in confidence to me which is not something you'd associate with Young. This is my biggest problem with the guy, confident when walking down the street, plenty of attitude but when it matters he shrivels up The only decent thing I think he did last night was that he put in a good defensive shift but that should not have been his role. Agreed In all fairness Hodgson dropped a bollock leaving him on. He should have came off for Walcott but it seemed as though regardless of who was and wasn't performing it was already decided that Walcott would again replace Milner. Exactly, mentally Young was shot to pieces, Milner wasn't coz he's stronger and more mature and built for the big occasion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 25, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hart for a penalty! Jesus we must be desperate! Hart's taken more than one penalty in a competetive shootout scenario and smacked it in the top corner. From what i've seen of him in that situation (which is admittedly a small sample size) he's excellent. Just because he's a keeper doesn't mean he can't take a penalty. In that situation it's all about nerves, and it would appear that Hart is someone who keeps his nerves wel well under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hart for a penalty! Jesus we must be desperate! Hart's taken more than one penalty in a competetive shootout scenario and smacked it in the top corner. From what i've seen of him in that situation (which is admittedly a small sample size) he's excellent. Just because he's a keeper doesn't mean he can't take a penalty. In that situation it's all about nerves, and it would appear that Hart is someone who keeps his nerves wel well under control. Completely agree Steve.... for me penalties (in particular huge occasions like last night) is 70% in the head and 30% ability.... Hart exudes huge amounts of maturity and could be a future England captain.... all this practising on the training pitch and scoring them is bollocks... it all comes down to Who can handle the big occasion? Young was never going to score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hart shopuld have took one for me, Neuer did in CL final and scored or maybe Hodgson took the 2004 Portugal approach were Eduardo wasnt allowed take one unless he saved one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Players like Young, Milner, Johnson, Walcott, Sturridge, need game time. Whilst playing for a top club gives you the chance to win medals, you aren't going to play most games. As a result you're not going to be as good as you could be and in some of the cases above won't get in the England side. Hope Young does well for United this year but a la Milner he may become a top 4 benchwarmer in the coming season. completely agree with this asssesment, while they may have a couple of medals to they're names now, they've gone backwards as players, nowhere near what they were with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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