JohnCresswell Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 by avfcinwales Whilst I accept this will be taken as me having another go at O'Neill I thought it of interest to question the validity of some comments concerning the likely spend in January and next season and the type of player likely to be brought. So first the disclaimer : I think Martin O'Neill is a great manager for Aston Villa in the present and recent past circumstances. His media talents, his man management abilities and his calming intelligent attitude was just what was required during the transition from Ellis to Lerner. His abilities have made the still ongoing changes, a nearly insignificant event that has hardly impinged on the day to day running of the club, whilst he's still found time to generate a new ethos amongst players that has given us one of the best starts to a Premiership campaign in modern history, and rightfully generated an optimistic feel around the club. At 54 he's not won that much as a manager, his English achievements are no better than our own Brian Little, and whilst he did win the Rangers Celtic battle in Scotland regularly, he didn't make that big an impact on the European field of achievement, one losing EUFA Cup final? Not that that alone is a failure, on Villa's record since Saunders left I'd say he'd have been a huge improvement over anyone we've had in charge since. Whether he'd have lasted more than a few weeks under an Ellis not looking to leave, I'd seriously doubt, but that's not the point here. It's accepted, I hope, that his strength in the past at all his clubs, has been to merge young talent alongside players, shall we say who have not been at their best, before he took them on, making them a highly motivated, die for the cause squad. Yes, there are exceptions but even Petrov, talented as he is wasn't as well known or respected as say Baros was when DOL bought him. Suffice it to say, what he hasn't done yet is to take real talent and combine that into a squad that can give the best in any country at the time, a run for their money. Maybe he won't need to, maybe even now he can still use what young talent we have and with the addition of a few players who will die for him out of gratitude for the chance to so do, make us great again. I can't see it, sorry, in today's football you need a team full of real talent, motivation alone, won't win Titles, or European Cups, but it will get you into Europe regularly even if the chances of winning the big prize is unlikely. Maybe that's enough ? Mind you has O'Neill had the resources that may be at his disposal this time, in the past, I think not. OK he spent well at Celtic and quite often expensively, I never rated Lennon at 6 million, but Agathe was evidently a snip of genuine proportions for 500k. Will he do the same at Villa ? Come January are we more likely to see more of the Sutton acquisition than the Kaka, or Toni. I think so. Firstly because I don't think the pot of gold is that big, yes, bigger and less restrictive than under Ellis for sure, but I think underneath it all O'Neill is a very cautious man, rightly so and his outlook will be to consolidate, first and hopefully, once he's proved to himself he can and if Lerner will, he'll spend more exuberantly to get that Chalice so many search for. Secondly I'm not convinced its in his nature to build a side full of talent at any or near any cost, his past record has shown he does it differently, and apart from that lack of 'Final' success he's been a hero at every club he's managed. Thing is and this is where I'm coming from, for me he's not here to steady the ship, to build a stable team under a short sighted tight fisted old geriatric. No, he's here to take a decent basic squad and build it into a dynasty of football achievement, just as Wenger has at Arsenal, Shankly did at Liverpool, Sir Alex is still doing at Manchester Utd. To achieve that in today's climate, he needs money and he needs to spend it on a certain type of player, players that will cost no matter how good an ability to spot talent you have. Simply he needs to up his own anti, and for me waiting until June is too late, he's shown what a miracle he can achieve already, although as he warns, please be patient if it goes pear shaped soon, its to be expected. Where in the past when such performances have been there, aka John Gregory topping the Premiership, the management failed to back the potential, this time in January, I'd like to see several quality additions, at not over the top prices to the squad. More importantly, although we desperately need more players now, come the summer, I want to see the owners ignoring the January spend and allow O'Neill to risk his judgement on some real top talent. That way, come August 2007 we will start with a squad full of quality young talent committed to the O'Neill cause players, looking forward to a European season combined with a Premiership Title challenge, and I hope Lennon isn't one of them. Then if nothing else we as fans will see just how good Martin O'Neill OBE really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomIsADeftone Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Are you suggesting not buying anyone in january jst so we have more money to spend in the next pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Are you suggesting not buying anyone in january jst so we have more money to spend in the next pre-season. **** knows I think it's saying Martin Oneill must spend money to have success here and spend it in January but he hasn't done that before and isn't that type of manager. But I may be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Malc, absolutely bang on. I agree with every word. I'm as excited as the next bloke about the "new dawn" but you're right about O'Neill, great manager that he is - arguably the best available in the UK - we don't know if he can do a "Wenger" like many are predicting, he's never done it before. I'm hoping that he does develop into the world class manager that we're all hoping for. Given the fact he's going to be developing in an environment fostered by an apparently benevolent, savy yet hands-off chairman MON will have every advantage available in order to blosssom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprouts Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 How can anybody talk of MON's nature and such things? He's never been at a big english club with a wealthy investor assisting him. This is new ground for O'Neill and Villa, to suggest you know what he will do with the money is arrogant in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I'm sure O'Neil is ready to up the anti, i think its all down to how good a players can be attracted. No superstars were ever going to go to Leicester or to play in the SPL and they won't come to Villa either, yet. We need to be playing at a higher level to get better players, UEFA cup at least so it'll probably be a few seasons until we can attract top players and MO'N can build his dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardCanning Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 TomIsADeftone wrote: Are you suggesting not buying anyone in january jst so we have more money to spend in the next pre-season. **** knows I think it's saying Martin Oneill must spend money to have success here and spend it in January but he hasn't done that before and isn't that type of manager. But I may be wrong Amen so it's not just me that often doesn't understand whether Malc's posts are being sarcastic or realistic. I normally have to wait 5 reponses before typing a reply to see whether I've got the correct end of the stick or not! If MON spends money in January IMO he'll do it wisely and to a point whereby he can get the maximum benefit in terms of performance from his new players and league position of the side. If he doesn't spend money it will be because he has judged that the benefits in terms of league placing will not necessarily equate to the expenditure in January! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Whats so difficult to understand? JG perfectly sums it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 ive always been intrigued as to what type of players MON wants to buy, and have always thought as malc says that he likes to nurture talent and buys those who are not maybe top draw but will fight for the cause. However that is why i was so surprised and thrilled to hear we wanted saviola. For me this proves MON is wanting to move on from the "safe" and "steady" signings of lennon, to players who who can really take us up where we belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Whats so difficult to understand? Well the poor attempts at irony and overall low standard of English for a start.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 You aren't that bad Risso - don't put yourself down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 The fact that he has never been at a club which has been able to afford him that opportunity seems to have escaped the attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 13, 2006 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2006 Some people would find a reason to moan when submerged in a swimming pool of Playboy bunnies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 13, 2006 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2006 Some people would find a reason to moan when submerged in a swimming pool of Playboy bunnies. I cant breath there's too many tits around Are you in the swimming pool or on VT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crr Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Mr negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 FWIW Malc I think that's a very fair article. However I disagree with you that we ought to spent big on big names in January. Summer is the time for that and you havve to buy at hugely infalted prices if you buy in January. Depending on where we are depends on how we spend. But this will be a slow growth and there's no way we'll be challenging for the league next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 why do we need big names ?? What we want is a proper sized squad full of alternatives and quality players, that is worth far more thaan £20m splashed out on single player. MON has always been about the team being greater than the sum of the parts aand lets look at his first proper signing - Petrov at £7m looks a brilliant caapture, be happy with 4 of his standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant(aka_eddy) Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 by avfcinwales article Not sure I agree that O'Neill wont be looking at some very big names but I do think he'll be forced into looking more at a team of Petrovs and Baros' before adding in the said really big names. I dont think all of a sudden we can buy a Kaka, in fact i'm absolutely certain we cant as there are too many better established alternatives for the very top players. But thought that was an excellent article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 13, 2006 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2006 For once I think I've read a Malcolm article that can almost be taken at face value. I can see where he's coming from and I agree to some extent with the general direction the article heads but as Richard pointed out MON has never been at a club where the finances aren't extremely restricted. Wycombe (speaks for itself), The crisp munchers were never a spending club, Norwich is largely irrelevant and Celtic were fiscally up shit creek when he took over so to suggest that MON hasn't ever shown he can buy the big players isn't relevant. Also malcolm suggest that in the English game his achievements only mirror our own Brian Little's, incorrect, with Leicester he won TWO league cups with a team that was nowhere near as financed to the extent that Little's team was, as much as I love Little, MON's achievements at Leicester were far more impressive than Little's at Vp imo. And its this constant playing down of MON's achievements in the game, the constant trying to belittle (see what I did there ) the successes of MON that gets my goat with malcs recent articles. I do know what he's trying to say but its his overall lack of belief in MON, which despite what he says in the disclaimer shines through for me once again. In terms of the strategic analysis of our current situation I think Malc has a point but I think his underlying lack of belief in MON is what ruins this article for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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