Sportswash! - Let’s oil stare at Manchester City!

[OutByEaster?]

So, initial hearing in the autumn of 2024, sentencing late in 2024, appeal goes in spring 2025, appeal is heard late 2025, revised sentencing at that point and agreement in spring of 2026 for punishments starting 2027? 

That's about the quickest I can see it going.

I suspect Jordan might be right with his 2030 prediction.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if when we reach the end of this process City aren't as dominant as they are now - being the star of the show affords them certain protections - if they're not by then, the passing of that time might bring them some vulnerabilities. 

[Zatman]

10 hours ago, villa4europe said:

For FFP? I'm not sure they have, juve obviously had theirs stripped for match fixing 

That's part of the problem and why this will take so long in the courts, beyond points deductions and fines there's no precedent for a major punishment, I'm sure 10 points is the highest deduction that's been made too

Is breaking FFP any different to match fixing?

[villa4europe]

39 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Is breaking FFP any different to match fixing?

Yes, match fixing is a criminal offence 

I've not seen anything yet where man city are actually being charged with fraud or under a criminal investigation 

They're not relegating man city over this, like I said there's no precedent for what people are expecting, no one has ever been stripped of a title or relegated for FFP breaches, it's not going to happen 

Edit - 11 people went to prison for juve did, that's not happening here 

Edited December 2, 2023 by villa4europe

[Genie]

47 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I've not seen anything yet where man city are actually being charged with fraud or under a criminal investigation

I wonder if paying Mancini 2 contracts is in some way tax evasion?

[villa4europe]

Just now, Genie said:

I wonder if paying Mancini 2 contracts is in some way tax evasion?

That would be on him not on them

He was paid by two companies, both owned by the man city owners which is why it breaks FFP rules but it doesn't break the law 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

Yes, match fixing is a criminal offence 

I've not seen anything yet where man city are actually being charged with fraud or under a criminal investigation 

They're not relegating man city over this, like I said there's no precedent for what people are expecting, no one has ever been stripped of a title or relegated for FFP breaches, it's not going to happen 

Edit - 11 people went to prison for juve did, that's not happening here 

Nobody will go to prison but regarding sporting integrity what City done is as bad. Juventus mainly just chose referees who were mainly weak and some werent even on the take

City have been paying players and managers off the books who actually have a lot more influence over a season than refs

[Zatman]

22 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

That would be on him not on them

He was paid by two companies, both owned by the man city owners which is why it breaks FFP rules but it doesn't break the law 

Well thats tax evasion. Most jobs your company sorts your tax out

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

Well thats tax evasion. Most jobs your company sorts your tax out

And he's paid by 2 companies, one of them registered in Abu Dhabi not in the UK 

I would doubt it's tax evasion at all let alone anything illegal by man city 

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

And he's paid by 2 companies, one of them registered in Abu Dhabi not in the UK 

I would doubt it's tax evasion at all let alone anything illegal by man city 

Not sure the UK tax laws but he was a UK resident in this time

 

[villa4europe]

24 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Not sure the UK tax laws but he was a UK resident in this time

But if he had an undeclared income that he wasn't paying tax on that would make mancini guilty of tax evasion not man city 

[Rds1983]

9 hours ago, Zatman said:

Well thats tax evasion. Most jobs your company sorts your tax out

I'm assuming he would have technically been a contractor and not an employee. His taxes would have been his affairs. That's before you even get into any other accountancy tricks.

[S-Platt]

Being paid by more than one company and paying the right tax is a minefield.  HMRC should be all over this case.

They can either prove there was evasion or failing that prove the organisations employees are paid more than declared for FFP.

First thing the Premier League should be looking at.   Its a merky world and City will argue it was not Football related payments for sure.

Corporation tax on income for the club too should be easy enough to trace. I would think that is harder to say consultancy fees when it's an entity rather than an individual.

Not a bean counter so I could be taking bollocks!

 

[VillaJ100]

3 hours ago, S-Platt said:

Being paid by more than one company and paying the right tax is a minefield.  HMRC should be all over this case.

They can either prove there was evasion or failing that prove the organisations employees are paid more than declared for FFP.

First thing the Premier League should be looking at.   Its a merky world and City will argue it was not Football related payments for sure.

Corporation tax on income for the club too should be easy enough to trace. I would think that is harder to say consultancy fees when it's an entity rather than an individual.

Not a bean counter so I could be taking bollocks!

 

It'll be some private appearance at Sheik Ali's 43rd birthday party for £4 million

[villa4europe]

7 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said:

It'll be some private appearance at Sheik Ali's 43rd birthday party for £4 million

From what I read he was a consultant for an Abu Dhabi team owned by the same guys 

I'm guessing it would be like us and this new team we've just invested in if our owners were found to be paying Unai more via them 

That's breaking FFP but not the law, it's not fraud, it's not necessarily tax evasion, it's breaking a football law, not a criminal law 

[Genie]

But if Mancini were to say he was told not to declare the second contract to HMRC by Man City it could get a bit spicy.

It wouldn’t make sense to pay him off the books only for him to declare the income to HMRC. 

[villa4europe]

This is all guess work and based on like I said there are no criminal charges against city or mancini - it's more likely that a foreign national earning revenue from a foreign source (and this won't be the only one, he'll probably have been doing Italian TV work etc) earning tens of millions has an accountant that happily keeps all of it away from HMRC

The liklihood of man city ever being dragged in to it by telling mancini what to do over his tax is somewhere between slim and none 

I think people want there to be something that there's not here, they've broken football rules, they will be punished by footballs governing bodies, there's no precedent for punishments beyond points deductions (which even then I think is only as high as 10 points) and fines

The level have cheating has obviously never been done before either with FFP being relatively new still but titles being stripped and especially relegation is pushing it and highly unlikely 

Edited December 3, 2023 by villa4europe

[Zatman]

31 minutes ago, Genie said:

But if Mancini were to say he was told not to declare the second contract to HMRC by Man City it could get a bit spicy.

It wouldn’t make sense to pay him off the books only for him to declare the income to HMRC. 

He also works for Saudi Arabia now so could be a political decision that he comes clean

[Brumstopdogs]

 

[MWARLEY2]

3 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

 

A very apt photo for the Nordic Goal Yeti

[Mark Albrighton]

Blimey that’s scoring high on the Phil Jones-o-meter.