PauloBarnesi Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think you need more classifications: Excellent/Good/Average/Below Average/Rubbish/Beye I wouldn’t say that Carew and Petrov in any way were average signings. We could have got better for what we paid for Petrov. So I'd still put him in the average bracket Just because you can sign someone better than Petrov for the same money, doesn’t stop him being a good signing. It just makes the other player an excellent signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Quite. By the same logic, Shay Given is a rubbish signing because we could have signed Michel Vorm for a quarter of the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well that logic doesn't really follow as Vorm isn't better than Given (allthough he is decent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'd swap Vorm for Given in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2012 Interesting. Apart from being good at playing it out from the back (which is why Swansea bought him) I don't see anythign Vorm does superior to Given. Oh and he's younger I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 my take on MON's signings (taking into account transfer fees): GOOD: A Young Friedel Milner Downing Dunne AVERAGE: Petrov Carew Knight Guzan L Young Collins Heskey BAD: Maloney Routledge Knight Salifou Davies Reo-Coker Harewood Sidwell Shorey Cuellar Delph Beye Warnock Carson You have Knight twice, I would say Knight was average. I would also put Heskey in the bad category, but I agree with the rest. sorry, Knight should be firmly in the average (not bad at all), maybe close to the good category. i put Heskey into average rather than bad due to his low transfer fee, though maybe the high wages kind of offsets that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2012 Carew average? 45 goals in 3 seasons (48 including the 1/2 season he joined). Top scorer for those 3 seasons and he was a direct swap (£4.5m) for Milan Baros and that's average? That doesn't even touch on the intangible cult value and the self-respect he gave the club and the fans for having a signature signing like that at the time. He was a huge boost and he backed it up. Yes he faded towards the end but for most of those 3 seasons him and Ashley Young symbolised the new exciting Aston Villa. They came in to the club at the same time and they seemed to immediately transform us. And, again, Carew cost us nothing in transfer fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Carew average? 45 goals in 3 seasons (48 including the 1/2 season he joined). Top scorer for those 3 seasons and he was a direct swap (£4.5m) for Milan Baros and that's average? That doesn't even touch on the intangible cult value and the self-respect he gave the club and the fans for having a signature signing like that at the time. He was a huge boost and he backed it up. Yes he faded towards the end but for most of those 3 seasons him and Ashley Young symbolised the new exciting Aston Villa. They came in to the club at the same time and they seemed to immediately transform us. And, again, Carew cost us nothing in transfer fees. ok ok, Carew in the good category. i was close to putting him there anyway. new list: GOOD: A Young Friedel Milner Downing Dunne Carew AVERAGE: Petrov (close to good) Knight Guzan L Young Collins Heskey BAD: Maloney Routledge Salifou Davies Reo-Coker Harewood Sidwell Shorey Cuellar Delph Beye Warnock Carson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'd have Petrov, Guzan & L.Young in the good list too based on a cost versus 'what they give/gave us' basis, but that's just me. Petrov has been club captain since he joined basically. Guzan cost nothing and was brought in as a backup and has never let us down. L.Young was one of the best RBs the season he arrived (almost POTS that season for us) and only MON's arsing about with him unsettled his stint here and we still got dosh for him when he left. I largely agree with your 'Bad' list other than Cuéllar who I think would be an average buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2012 Yeah I'd argue Cuellar's case. Plus Carson was a loan, so if you include him you'd have to include Sutton, Agathe and co Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Interesting. Apart from being good at playing it out from the back (which is why Swansea bought him) I don't see anythign Vorm does superior to Given. Oh and he's younger I suppose. From what I've seen he also commands his area much better - which has always been Given's biggest problem. I'd say Given might be a bit of a better shot-stopper (there aren't many better after all), but Vorm is hardly a slouch in that area. And to be more specific, it might be better phrased as "if we could do our summer business all over again" (we are, after all debating the overall value a transfer has offered) then Vorm instead would have given us £4.5m extra in transfer fees and somewhere in the region of £1.5m per year in wages. All for a fairly negligible drop in quality, if any at all. That could easily be the difference between having say, Scott Dann in our defence all season. Defence rests m'lud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Cuellar is definitely in bad list for me, at his best worth no more than 4 million and not as good as KNight. As for Maloney he would be an average deal, 1 million doubt had a big salary and scored a few goals. Not MON fault he got homesick, also sure made a slight profit on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Carlos Cuellar Bad singing...!? It depends on what your definition of a bad singing is! Yes he cost us quite a bit of money. But then look at other centre Backs - Rio Ferdianand and Gary Cahill. Carlos was instrumental in transforming our defence with him under ONeil we: - went from having one of the worst Defences to having one of the best. - Not scoring from set pieces to scoring from them - did not concede lots from set pieces Not saying this was all down to him but he was part of a solid defensive unit under MON. Real Madrid were sniffing around him at one point. He was one of our best players at the weekend. King Carlos was a good signing without doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Yes he cost us quite a bit of money. But then look at other centre Backs - Rio Ferdianand and Gary Cahill. Cahill cost less than Cuellar in both his transfers Carlos was instrumental in transforming our defence with him under ONeil we: - went from having one of the worst Defences to having one of the best. - Not scoring from set pieces to scoring from them - did not concede lots from set pieces pretty sure you are mixing Cuellar up with Martin Laursen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Cuellar is one of MON's better signings. Certainly better than Dunne and Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Cuellar is one of MON's better signings. Certainly better than Dunne and Collins. Mantis - we agree on something - beauty...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Yes he cost us quite a bit of money. But then look at other centre Backs - Rio Ferdianand and Gary Cahill. Cahill cost less than Cuellar in both his transfers Carlos was instrumental in transforming our defence with him under ONeil we: - went from having one of the worst Defences to having one of the best. - Not scoring from set pieces to scoring from them - did not concede lots from set pieces pretty sure you are mixing Cuellar up with Martin Laursen LOL - Gary Cahil had 5 months left before he could sign for free. When you think about it Chelski signed him for 7 million that was a lot. Cuellar was expensive but was a good signing. How much were Rio Ferdinand and David Luiz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 LOL - Gary Cahil had 5 months left before he could sign for free. When you think about it Chelski signed him for 7 million that was a lot. Cuellar was expensive but was a good signing its beside the point how much he had left on his deal, you said he cost a bit of money. Cuellar hasnt been a great signing. First of all none of our managers regularly played him in his natural position when all players were fit. He is slow, his touch is not great and his reading of the game is very questionable. He seems a eral nice guy and all but just not a great defender for me He was no better or worse than Zat Knight was for Villa though better than Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 But he's the best defender we've got, Zat. That's not saying much mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 But he's the best defender we've got, Zat. That's not saying much mind you still doesnt make him a great signing, also would argue on form Dunne is a much better player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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