Risso Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 From what I have seen it has been from Creationist websites some of which seem to have been written by Creationist Scientists. Or as the rest of us call them, creationists. Damn you and your fast fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hilarious invention of geology and complete bollocks. There were only three lahars episodes in the whole of the 1980 − 86 Mt St Helens period of volcanic activity, they will not be considered to be rocks yet and no fossils would be formed, it is impossible…. Shut up bro. You can't argue with what the Watchtower tells people to think. It's on several websites on teh interweb FFS! As far as I am aware Steak & Chips has not quoted from any site that has anything to do with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. From what I have seen it has been from Creationist websites some of which seem to have been written by Creationist Scientists. That's an oxymoron. Creationism is anti-scientific by nature as it involves the intervention of a supernatural agent, whereas science limits itself to the natural world. Creationism is also anti-scientific because it can only be true if literally everything that we currently understand in modern science is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Do find it slightly sad that the non believers have to ridicule the believers in almost every post Ok they have a belief that I can't fathom and one could argue it's a blind faith as they don't seem to want to accept any evidence that counters their claim but even so hasn't the bible taught us to love our neighbour ... and then kill him if he doubts the word of God (Deuteronomy 17) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Do find it slightly sad that the non believers have to ridicule the believers in almost every post Ok they have a belief that I can't fathom and one could argue it's a blind faith as they don't seem to want to accept any evidence that counters their claim but even so hasn't the bible taught us to love our neighbour ... and then kill him if he doubts the word of God (Deuteronomy 17) There is no evidence to counter Creationists claims. The constancy of the decay rates of isotopes is well supported in science. Evidence for this constancy includes the correspondences of date estimates taken from different radioactive isotopes as well as correspondences with non-radiometric dating techniques such as dendrochronology, ice core dating, and historical records. Although scientists have noted slight increases in the decay rate for isotopes subject to extreme pressures, those differences were too small to significantly impact date estimates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There's no such thing. There are creationists, and there are scientists. Try not to confuse the two. I'm not sure how many are Creationists ie beleive the Earth and all that is on it was created in six days or how many beleive in Creation. There is a difference so try not to confuse the two! However just a random search on Google shows a list of Scientists who have signed up as follows:- Best go argue with them as to their credentials! Some modern scientists who have accepted the biblical account of creation Dr. William Arion, Biochemistry, Chemistry Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist Dr. Don Batten, Plant Physiologist Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics Dr. Rob Carter, Marine Biology Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist Timothy C. Coppess, M.S., Environmental Scientist Dr. Bob Compton, DVM Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics Dr. Andrew J. Fabich, Microbiology Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry Dr. Kenneth W. Funk, Organic Chemistry Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History Dr. Stephen Grocott, Chemist Dr. Vicki Hagerman, DMV Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics Dr. John Hartnett, Physics Dr. Mark Harwood, Engineering (satellite specialist) Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry Dr. George F. Howe, Botany Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology Dr. Russ Humphreys, Physics Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy George T. Javor, Biochemistry Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Molecular Biology Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology Dr. William F. Kane, (Civil) Geotechnical Engineering Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry Dr. Johan Kruger, Zoology Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology Dr. John G. Leslie, Biochemist, Physician, Archaeologist Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist Dr. Alan Love, Chemist Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist: Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist Dr. Ronald C. Marks, Associate Professor of Chemistry Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist Dr. John McEwan, Chemist Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics Dr. David Menton, Anatomist Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist Colin W. Mitchell, Geography Dr. Tommy Mitchell, Physician Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist Dr. Henry M. Morris (1918–2006), founder of the Institute for Creation Research. Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist Dr. Terry Mortenson, History of Geology Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher Prof. John Oller, Linguistics Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology) Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon Prof. Richard Porter Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D. Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Physical Chemistry Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist: Dr. Ian Scott, Educator Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geology Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist George S. Smith, M.S., Chemistry Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist: Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist Dr. Stephen J. Vinay III, Chemical Engineering Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892–1979) Surgeon Dr. Tas Walker, Geology/Engineering Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology) Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist Dr. Carl Wieland, Medicine/Surgery Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915–1995) Three science doctorates; a creation science pioneer Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997) Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There's no such thing. There are creationists, and there are scientists. Try not to confuse the two. I'm not sure how many are Creationists ie beleive the Earth and all that is on it was created in six days or how many beleive in Creation. There is a difference so try not to confuse the two! However just a random search on Google shows a list of Scientists who have signed up as follows:- Some modern scientists who have accepted the biblical account of creation Dr. William Arion, Biochemistry, Chemistry Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist Dr. Don Batten, Plant Physiologist Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics Dr. Rob Carter, Marine Biology Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist Timothy C. Coppess, M.S., Environmental Scientist Dr. Bob Compton, DVM Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics Dr. Andrew J. Fabich, Microbiology Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry Dr. Kenneth W. Funk, Organic Chemistry Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History Dr. Stephen Grocott, Chemist Dr. Vicki Hagerman, DMV Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics Dr. John Hartnett, Physics Dr. Mark Harwood, Engineering (satellite specialist) Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry Dr. George F. Howe, Botany Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology Dr. Russ Humphreys, Physics Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy George T. Javor, Biochemistry Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Molecular Biology Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology Dr. William F. Kane, (Civil) Geotechnical Engineering Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry Dr. Johan Kruger, Zoology Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology Dr. John G. Leslie, Biochemist, Physician, Archaeologist Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist Dr. Alan Love, Chemist Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist: Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist Dr. Ronald C. Marks, Associate Professor of Chemistry Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist Dr. John McEwan, Chemist Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics Dr. David Menton, Anatomist Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist Colin W. Mitchell, Geography Dr. Tommy Mitchell, Physician Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist Dr. Henry M. Morris (1918–2006), founder of the Institute for Creation Research. Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist Dr. Terry Mortenson, History of Geology Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher Prof. John Oller, Linguistics Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology) Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon Prof. Richard Porter Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D. Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Physical Chemistry Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist: Dr. Ian Scott, Educator Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geology Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist George S. Smith, M.S., Chemistry Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist: Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist Dr. Stephen J. Vinay III, Chemical Engineering Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892–1979) Surgeon Dr. Tas Walker, Geology/Engineering Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology) Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist Dr. Carl Wieland, Medicine/Surgery Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915–1995) Three science doctorates; a creation science pioneer Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997) Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology Best go argue with them as to their credentials! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 That's an oxymoron. Creationism is anti-scientific by nature as it involves the intervention of a supernatural agent, whereas science limits itself to the natural world. Creationism is also anti-scientific because it can only be true if literally everything that we currently understand in modern science is incorrect. I find this notion interesting. Science is the study and measure of the physical world: time, matter, space. When the big bang happened some eons ago, that was when these things came into being. Now if God created the world then he created the big bang.... ... which would put him outside the realms of time and space. How, then, is it impossible that the 2 can co-exist? While it is true that science cannot prove or disprove God, there should at least be evidence within science that points to the conclusion that there is a God/intelligence/being, shouldn't there? The point being that everything that has a beginning has a cause. The universe is known to have a beginning in the big bang therefore it must have a cause. Since science can't prove what it is at that point it's up for debate. The simplest answer is that there is/was something that set it off. Creation Scientists call that something "God". Athiests call it "the laws of science" or some such. Why is it that one is less valid than the other in the eyes of most evolutionists/athiests/self-proclaimed "free thinkers" (yes, that was aimed at you, legov :winkold:) ? I'd suggest it has less to do with the notion of a God than it does the implications of a creator God's existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Do find it slightly sad that the non believers have to ridicule the believers in almost every post Ok they have a belief that I can't fathom and one could argue it's a blind faith as they don't seem to want to accept any evidence that counters their claim but even so hasn't the bible taught us to love our neighbour ... and then kill him if he doubts the word of God (Deuteronomy 17) There is no evidence to counter Creationists claims. The constancy of the decay rates of isotopes is well supported in science. Evidence for this constancy includes the correspondences of date estimates taken from different radioactive isotopes as well as correspondences with non-radiometric dating techniques such as dendrochronology, ice core dating, and historical records. Although scientists have noted slight increases in the decay rate for isotopes subject to extreme pressures, those differences were too small to significantly impact date estimates. Yes. There. Is. In fact I will give you a rather quick, easy to understand example. The male urethra travels through the prostate gland on its path from the bladder to the external meatus of the penis. The prostate gland swells over time in a process known as BPH, or benign prostate hyperplasia, which results in a constriction of the urethra and a consequential difficulty in passing urine. This stasis of urine can lead to urinary tract infections such as urethritis, cystitis and, if left untreated, pyelonephritis. Now, this BPH is not a disease in itself, it is a natural part of male human physiology and a simple consequence of ageing. Which begs the question - what kind of intelligent God would put a flexible tube through a gland that swells with time? Why not just put it to the side? What a stupid thing to do. This is just ONE example of fundamental structural flaw in the human body. If we had truly been designed by God we would be flawless in structure, even if we are susceptible to disease now that we've 'sinned'. One day you, like 99% of men, will have great trouble pissing, on that day you can thank God for a truly wonderful design. edit: In case you didn't get it, let me summarise - the evidence against intelligent design by God is in your own body!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That's a completely different argument oz. The point we're all arguing about is the idiocy of New Earth Creationists. They are not scientiests, and it isn't science. It's lunacy that takes its starting point as tracts from the bible, rather than a desire to expand scientific knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Man-Suk Song :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That's an oxymoron. Creationism is anti-scientific by nature as it involves the intervention of a supernatural agent, whereas science limits itself to the natural world. Creationism is also anti-scientific because it can only be true if literally everything that we currently understand in modern science is incorrect. I find this notion interesting. Science is the study and measure of the physical world: time, matter, space. When the big bang happened some eons ago, that was when these things came into being. Now if God created the world then he created the big bang.... ... which would put him outside the realms of time and space. How, then, is it impossible that the 2 can co-exist? While it is true that science cannot prove or disprove God, there should at least be evidence within science that points to the conclusion that there is a God/intelligence/being, shouldn't there? The point being that everything that has a beginning has a cause. The universe is known to have a beginning in the big bang therefore it must have a cause. Since science can't prove what it is at that point it's up for debate. The simplest answer is that there is/was something that set it off. Creation Scientists call that something "God". Athiests call it "the laws of science" or some such. Why is it that one is less valid than the other in the eyes of most evolutionists/athiests/self-proclaimed "free thinkers" (yes, that was aimed at you, legov :winkold:) ? I'd suggest it has less to do with the notion of a God than it does the implications of a creator God's existence. One is less valid than the other because one is the honest admission of a lack of knowledge, and the pursuit to attain that knowledge through means of evidence and experiment (science), the other is the dishonest claim of knowledge and the refusal to find any evidence to support it, or acknowledge the evidence that opposes it (religion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCLaura Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Can someone please surmise this argument for me so I don't have to read all 28 pages? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 That's a completely different argument oz. The point we're all arguing about is the idiocy of New Earth Creationists. They are not scientiests, and it isn't science. It's lunacy that takes its starting point as tracts from the bible, rather than a desire to expand scientific knowledge. There is no doubt that they believe in a literal Genesis, but I think you'll find they started with science and - being convinced of the existence of a creator - then worked backwards. Not the other way around. The big key for them is the simple assumption that the world was created mature - that is, Adam was created as a man, not a child/pre-cursor to homo sapiens and the same goes for the rest of creation according to the Genesis account. The naturalist believes it all came from a single cell many years ago. Point being, they are both assumptions.... .... and we now get into the whole "but my assumption is better than yours" that both sides seem to take up in this argument, without anybody ever convincing their opponents (though I'm certain many will try). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 Can someone please summise this argument for me so I don't have to read all 28 pages? Thanks. Steakandchips is trolling that the biblical flood happened (or is mad), Julie actually believes it did, everyone else points out why this madness, some point and laugh. Same old. Remember to buy Watchtower and get down the Kingdom Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There's no such thing. There are creationists, and there are scientists. Try not to confuse the two. I'm not sure how many are Creationists ie beleive the Earth and all that is on it was created in six days or how many beleive in Creation. There is a difference so try not to confuse the two! However just a random search on Google shows a list of Scientists who have signed up as follows:- Some modern scientists who have accepted the biblical account of creation Dr. William Arion, Biochemistry, Chemistry Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist Dr. Don Batten, Plant Physiologist Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics Dr. Rob Carter, Marine Biology Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist Timothy C. Coppess, M.S., Environmental Scientist Dr. Bob Compton, DVM Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics Dr. Andrew J. Fabich, Microbiology Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry Dr. Kenneth W. Funk, Organic Chemistry Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History Dr. Stephen Grocott, Chemist Dr. Vicki Hagerman, DMV Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics Dr. John Hartnett, Physics Dr. Mark Harwood, Engineering (satellite specialist) Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry Dr. George F. Howe, Botany Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology Dr. Russ Humphreys, Physics Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy George T. Javor, Biochemistry Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Molecular Biology Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology Dr. William F. Kane, (Civil) Geotechnical Engineering Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry Dr. Johan Kruger, Zoology Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology Dr. John G. Leslie, Biochemist, Physician, Archaeologist Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist Dr. Alan Love, Chemist Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist: Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist Dr. Ronald C. Marks, Associate Professor of Chemistry Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist Dr. John McEwan, Chemist Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics Dr. David Menton, Anatomist Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist Colin W. Mitchell, Geography Dr. Tommy Mitchell, Physician Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist Dr. Henry M. Morris (1918–2006), founder of the Institute for Creation Research. Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist Dr. Terry Mortenson, History of Geology Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher Prof. John Oller, Linguistics Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology) Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon Prof. Richard Porter Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D. Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Physical Chemistry Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist: Dr. Ian Scott, Educator Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geology Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist George S. Smith, M.S., Chemistry Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist: Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist Dr. Stephen J. Vinay III, Chemical Engineering Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892–1979) Surgeon Dr. Tas Walker, Geology/Engineering Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology) Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist Dr. Carl Wieland, Medicine/Surgery Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915–1995) Three science doctorates; a creation science pioneer Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997) Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology Best go argue with them as to their credentials! OK, let's take a few of those: Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon - actually, I don't care what his credentials are. He's a plastic surgeon! Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist - degree from Indiana Christian University and a mail order Phd from Columbia Pacific University, a non licensed "Degree Mill". Dr John Whitmore - Masters in geology from the Institute for Creation Research, and a Phd from Loma Linda University, a Seventh Day Adventist college! You really are going to have to try just a little bit harder than that Julie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That's an oxymoron. Creationism is anti-scientific by nature as it involves the intervention of a supernatural agent, whereas science limits itself to the natural world. Creationism is also anti-scientific because it can only be true if literally everything that we currently understand in modern science is incorrect. I find this notion interesting. Science is the study and measure of the physical world: time, matter, space. When the big bang happened some eons ago, that was when these things came into being. Now if God created the world then he created the big bang.... ... which would put him outside the realms of time and space. How, then, is it impossible that the 2 can co-exist? While it is true that science cannot prove or disprove God, there should at least be evidence within science that points to the conclusion that there is a God/intelligence/being, shouldn't there? The point being that everything that has a beginning has a cause. The universe is known to have a beginning in the big bang therefore it must have a cause. Since science can't prove what it is at that point it's up for debate. The simplest answer is that there is/was something that set it off. Creation Scientists call that something "God". Athiests call it "the laws of science" or some such. Why is it that one is less valid than the other in the eyes of most evolutionists/athiests/self-proclaimed "free thinkers" (yes, that was aimed at you, legov :winkold:) ? I'd suggest it has less to do with the notion of a God than it does the implications of a creator God's existence. The central idea I was trying to get across was that science is, almost by definition, debate and discussion and reviewing evidence. Things that are (usually) not encouraged in religious circles. And nowhere did I say that the laws of science created the universe, I'm not ruling out either possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 .... and we now get into the whole "but my assumption is better than yours" that both sides seem to take up in this argument, without anybody ever convincing their opponents (though I'm certain many will try). And that battle about assumptions is called science. Creationist "science" is just bad, bad science, and most of those people Julie listed either have degrees from bible bashing universities, or the sort you buy from online vendors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 One is less valid than the other because one is the honest admission of a lack of knowledge, and the pursuit to attain that knowledge through means of evidence and experiment (science), the other is the dishonest claim of knowledge and the refusal to find any evidence to support it, or acknowledge the evidence that opposes it (religion). I think you'll find that the evidence to support their claims is in the historical person of Jesus. You may dismiss this evidence, but it is hardly a dishonest claim, a refusal to find any evidence nor an inability to acknowledge the evidence that opposes it.... ... that apparently you are honest enough to say doesn't exist. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There's no such thing. There are creationists, and there are scientists. Try not to confuse the two. I'm not sure how many are Creationists ie beleive the Earth and all that is on it was created in six days or how many beleive in Creation. There is a difference so try not to confuse the two! However just a random search on Google shows a list of Scientists who have signed up as follows:- Some modern scientists who have accepted the biblical account of creation Dr. William Arion, Biochemistry, Chemistry Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist Dr. Don Batten, Plant Physiologist Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics Dr. Rob Carter, Marine Biology Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist Timothy C. Coppess, M.S., Environmental Scientist Dr. Bob Compton, DVM Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics Dr. Andrew J. Fabich, Microbiology Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry Dr. Kenneth W. Funk, Organic Chemistry Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History Dr. Stephen Grocott, Chemist Dr. Vicki Hagerman, DMV Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics Dr. John Hartnett, Physics Dr. Mark Harwood, Engineering (satellite specialist) Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry Dr. George F. Howe, Botany Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology Dr. Russ Humphreys, Physics Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy George T. Javor, Biochemistry Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Molecular Biology Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology Dr. William F. Kane, (Civil) Geotechnical Engineering Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry Dr. Johan Kruger, Zoology Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology Dr. John G. Leslie, Biochemist, Physician, Archaeologist Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist Dr. Alan Love, Chemist Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist: Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist Dr. Ronald C. Marks, Associate Professor of Chemistry Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist[/b[ Dr. John McEwan, Chemist Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics Dr. David Menton, Anatomist Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist Colin W. Mitchell, Geography Dr. Tommy Mitchell, Physician Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist Dr. Henry M. Morris (1918–2006), founder of the Institute for Creation Research. Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist Dr. Terry Mortenson, History of Geology Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher Prof. John Oller, Linguistics Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology) Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon Prof. Richard Porter Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D. Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Physical Chemistry Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist: Dr. Ian Scott, Educator Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geology Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist George S. Smith, M.S., Chemistry Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist: Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist Dr. Stephen J. Vinay III, Chemical Engineering Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892–1979) Surgeon Dr. Tas Walker, Geology/Engineering Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology) Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist Dr. Carl Wieland, Medicine/Surgery Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915–1995) Three science doctorates; a creation science pioneer Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997) Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology Best go argue with them as to their credentials! Did you read any of that list or did you just mindlessly copy and paste it without looking? I've taken the liberty of highlighting all the names of people in that list whose fields of expertise have nothing whatsoever to do with the relevant biology or cosmology that is the focus of this thread. It goes back to a point I made earlier: Religion has the power to make otherwise intelligent people say, do, and believe really, really stupid shit. So all you've managed to do is make yourself look a little silly by producing a list of a few dozen names, half of which work in fields that have nothing to do with biology. I've given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed the others are actually intelligent people who went to decent universities, and not the crackpot creationist universities that have cropped up in the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 It is similar. Repeated indoctrinations through sermons? Check. Discouraged from questioning? Check. Publication of literature to fill up private coffers? Check. It's still a cult, the only difference is that it is a mainstream one and hence most of us euphemistically call it a "religion". Not that I (generally) have any problem with people believing in it mind, but it's still all quite silly to me. To the hardcore believer, all other religions are cults. I could take your arguments and apply them to atheism with the sole difference being it does not call itself a religion.... .... even though it's believers act very much like believers of any other religion. Atheists don't need to attend sermons, we require no support groups. We also question everything rather than discourage questioning. Some atheists will write books for profit but we live in a capalist society. Other than that I can't see how atheists act like the religious at all ? We have no doctrine or dogma and besides a collective non-belief we can have very little in common with each other. I am an atheist because I see no evidence for theism . I am also an anti-theist in that I will happily mock and attack religion and its advocaters as I feel it is intrinsically bad for the human race . Some people may take offence but that's just tough shit . Theocracy and stupidity offend me but I don't cry about it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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