The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[pacbuddies]

Alex McLeish, the first man in history to depress and bore the fans of both football teams in Britain's 2nd largest city. You've got to give it to the guy, he is a genius!

[Stu_The_Villan]

The league doesnt lie Mantis and neither does the team sheet on a matchday. Were shit. Time you started dealing with it instead of blaming everything on the Ginger Clunge

[TrentVilla]

The league doesnt lie Mantis and neither does the team sheet on a matchday. Were shit. Time you started dealing with it instead of blaming everything on the Ginger special one

Does he blame everything on McLeish???

I don't think he does to be honest, I think he like most blames McLeish, Houllier, Lerner, our players and O'Neill for the mess we are in. All are responsible to one extent or another.

We are shit, there is no doubt about that but McLeish is partly responsible for that so he can't be absolved of blame either.

[Mantis]

The league doesnt lie Mantis and neither does the team sheet on a matchday. Were shit. Time you started dealing with it instead of blaming everything on the Ginger special one

Going by this logic then Dalglish is the 8th best manager in the league. After all, the table doesn't lie right?

Pointing to the table as evidence of how good our squad is doesn't make sense at all. It assumes that all the managers in the league are of roughly equal ability.

Tell me then, when we were perched just above the relegation zone this time last season, was our squad bottom 5 quality then? Did our squad suddenly shoot up to top 10 quality when we finished 9th?

And no I don't blame everything on McLeish. However, he must share a large portion of the blame for the position we're in right now.

[GarethRDR]

*ring ring*

Alex: "Och aye?"

Randy: "Alex? It's Randy. Them there Astone Villaynians I done bought, I been hearin' on ESPN that we could be in a 'Championship' next season?"

Alex: "Keep the heid! Whit's fur ye'll no go by ye!"

Randy: "Well I don't know 'bout no "Whit" or how much fur he dun' buying, but I sure am excited by the prospect o' this 'Championship' thingy! I dun' not even know we could get pre-moted from the League o' Premiers."

Alex: "Whit?! Tha's haver! Your heid's mince!"

Randy: "You get this soccerball team to that there Championship, you can have all the mince you want."

Alex: "Pure dead brilliant."

*click*

[Stu_The_Villan]

Which i said in my post on the last page Trent. (The post that Mantis conveniently managed to ignore might i add)

[pacbuddies]

"Just because a team is over 20 points ahead of us in the league doesn't mean that they have a better squad than us".

I have heard it all. Are you being serious?

Yes, you seem to just consider the points haul as the only measure of the ability of a squad of football players.

Don't you ever give any thought to the person that manages them?

I managed football teams for over 13 years and I knew the capabilities of each and every one of the players that I managed and what they were capable of as a squad of players. I also knew that if I gave the managers job to some useless bloke off the street the results would suffer and the squad would seriously under achieve.

Your brand of logic suggests that Manchester City, based on the squad of players at their disposal, should be so far ahead of Manchester United in terms of points attained that the title race would be over by now. I think that Alex Ferguson might just be a factor in the fact that they aren't.

You cannot just state that a team has a better squad of players just because they have more points. It is a little bit more complex than that.

[Mantis]

Which i said in my post on the last page Trent. (The post that Mantis conveniently managed to ignore might i add)

Which post did I "ignore"? :?

And can you please answer my questions?

[Voinjama]

"Just because a team is over 20 points ahead of us in the league doesn't mean that they have a better squad than us".

I have heard it all. Are you being serious?

Yes, you seem to just consider the points haul as the only measure of the ability of a squad of football players.

Don't you ever give any thought to the person that manages them?

I managed football teams for over 13 years and I knew the capabilities of each and every one of the players that I managed and what they were capable of as a squad of players. I also knew that if I gave the managers job to some useless bloke off the street the results would suffer and the squad would seriously under achieve.

Your brand of logic suggests that Manchester City, based on the squad of players at their disposal, should be so far ahead of Manchester United in terms of points attained that the title race would be over by now. I think that Alex Ferguson might just be a factor in the fact that they aren't.

You cannot just state that a team has a better squad of players just because they have more points. It is a little bit more complex than that.

I understand what you are saying the manager is a huge factor, but I am afraid 20 points is too big a margin for this argument to be valid. If it was maybe 7 or 8 points then yeah, but 20 points is like 7 wins difference. And how many villa players would get in the Newcastle XI: Maybe 1 or 2.

[Stu_The_Villan]

Going by this logic then Dalglish is the 8th best manager in the league. After all, the table doesn't lie right?

I thought we were talking about the quality of the squad, not the manager?

[Mantis]

Going by this logic then Dalglish is the 8th best manager in the league. After all, the table doesn't lie right?

I thought we were talking about the quality of the squad, not the manager?

Well according to you the table doesn't lie about the squads, so one would assume that it's the same regarding the managers.

Then again, that would also make McLeish the 15th worst manager in the league (we all know he's worse) and I'm not sure you'd like to admit that.

[Stu_The_Villan]

The difference is the players there are hungrier. Like i said in my post above...most of our seniors just couldnt give a **** about busting a gut for this club. They know some stupid sod will sign them again once they leave here so they just dont care. Whereas all the Norwich players are looking to make a name for themselves. For example...id take Grant Holt over any of our strikers all day long, just the same as id take Pilkington over any of our midfielders (including the genius Stephen Ireland). They just want it more.

Some would blame Mcleish. I dont. Im not saying hes not to blame at all because he blatantly is...but the players need to take most of the blame for their shocking performances

Heres the post Mantis. Note the points about Mcleish being partly responsible but how the players must also take some blame.

What questions you on about now? Whatever they are, id rather not to be honest. Im quite sick of you following me round this forum like a lovestruck teenage girl

[Stu_The_Villan]

Going by this logic then Dalglish is the 8th best manager in the league. After all, the table doesn't lie right?

I thought we were talking about the quality of the squad, not the manager?

Well according to you the table doesn't lie about the squads, so one would assume that it's the same regarding the managers.

Then again, that would also make McLeish the 15th worst manager in the league (we all know he's worse) and I'm not sure you'd like to admit that.

What on earth are you waffling on about now?!?

[pacbuddies]

"Just because a team is over 20 points ahead of us in the league doesn't mean that they have a better squad than us".

I have heard it all. Are you being serious?

Yes, you seem to just consider the points haul as the only measure of the ability of a squad of football players.

Don't you ever give any thought to the person that manages them?

I managed football teams for over 13 years and I knew the capabilities of each and every one of the players that I managed and what they were capable of as a squad of players. I also knew that if I gave the managers job to some useless bloke off the street the results would suffer and the squad would seriously under achieve.

Your brand of logic suggests that Manchester City, based on the squad of players at their disposal, should be so far ahead of Manchester United in terms of points attained that the title race would be over by now. I think that Alex Ferguson might just be a factor in the fact that they aren't.

You cannot just state that a team has a better squad of players just because they have more points. It is a little bit more complex than that.

I understand what you are saying the manager is a huge factor, but I am afraid 20 points is too big a margin for this argument to be valid. If it was maybe 7 or 8 points then yeah, but 20 points is like 7 wins difference. And how many villa players would get in the Newcastle XI: Maybe 1 or 2.

OK, I give up. Our squad is shit and if McLeish had Newcastle's squad we would be in 6th place challenging for Europe.

[Mantis]

Going by this logic then Dalglish is the 8th best manager in the league. After all, the table doesn't lie right?

I thought we were talking about the quality of the squad, not the manager?

Well according to you the table doesn't lie about the squads, so one would assume that it's the same regarding the managers.

Then again, that would also make McLeish the 15th worst manager in the league (we all know he's worse) and I'm not sure you'd like to admit that.

What on earth are you waffling on about now?!?

I could ask you the same question.

Look at last season for example. This time last year we were 16th. I liked Houllier but even I'll admit that our squad then was not bottom 5 quality. However, going by your logic, it was, given that the table doesn't lie right?

[Voinjama]

"Just because a team is over 20 points ahead of us in the league doesn't mean that they have a better squad than us".

I have heard it all. Are you being serious?

Yes, you seem to just consider the points haul as the only measure of the ability of a squad of football players.

Don't you ever give any thought to the person that manages them?

I managed football teams for over 13 years and I knew the capabilities of each and every one of the players that I managed and what they were capable of as a squad of players. I also knew that if I gave the managers job to some useless bloke off the street the results would suffer and the squad would seriously under achieve.

Your brand of logic suggests that Manchester City, based on the squad of players at their disposal, should be so far ahead of Manchester United in terms of points attained that the title race would be over by now. I think that Alex Ferguson might just be a factor in the fact that they aren't.

You cannot just state that a team has a better squad of players just because they have more points. It is a little bit more complex than that.

I understand what you are saying the manager is a huge factor, but I am afraid 20 points is too big a margin for this argument to be valid. If it was maybe 7 or 8 points then yeah, but 20 points is like 7 wins difference. And how many villa players would get in the Newcastle XI: Maybe 1 or 2.

OK, I give up. Our squad is shit and if McLeish had Newcastle's squad we would be in 6th place challenging for Europe.

I give up with you. You are probably the only person on this forum and in England that thinks aston villa have a better squad than newcastle at the moment.

[Mantis]

Newcastle definitely have a better squad than us. However, that doesn't mean the 8 clubs below them and above us also have better squads.

[pacbuddies]

"Just because a team is over 20 points ahead of us in the league doesn't mean that they have a better squad than us".

I have heard it all. Are you being serious?

Yes, you seem to just consider the points haul as the only measure of the ability of a squad of football players.

Don't you ever give any thought to the person that manages them?

I managed football teams for over 13 years and I knew the capabilities of each and every one of the players that I managed and what they were capable of as a squad of players. I also knew that if I gave the managers job to some useless bloke off the street the results would suffer and the squad would seriously under achieve.

Your brand of logic suggests that Manchester City, based on the squad of players at their disposal, should be so far ahead of Manchester United in terms of points attained that the title race would be over by now. I think that Alex Ferguson might just be a factor in the fact that they aren't.

You cannot just state that a team has a better squad of players just because they have more points. It is a little bit more complex than that.

I understand what you are saying the manager is a huge factor, but I am afraid 20 points is too big a margin for this argument to be valid. If it was maybe 7 or 8 points then yeah, but 20 points is like 7 wins difference. And how many villa players would get in the Newcastle XI: Maybe 1 or 2.

OK, I give up. Our squad is shit and if McLeish had Newcastle's squad we would be in 6th place challenging for Europe.

I give up with you. You are probably the only person on this forum and in England that thinks aston villa have a better squad than newcastle at the moment.

Probably but you can never be sure.

[Stu_The_Villan]

Mantis, i cant be arsed mate. Do somebody elses head in for a bit.

[MR_Black_AVFC]

If it all about the squad, how can you explain that Sunderland couldn't buy a win from anywhere under another Mr Negative in Steve Bruce, yet MON takes over and it is now a shock to see them lose a game.

A well known football pundit said that the team reflects the managers personality.