Adam2003 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Albrighton, Makoun and Delph are squad players but could in time become quality first team players but they're clearly not at the moment We finished sixth with the likes of Petrov and Reo-Coker playing. Makoun and Delph are a class above them IMHO. pass what your smoking.... Here you go. It's a 'Petrov and Reo-Coker are both shite' cigarette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Albrighton, Makoun and Delph are squad players but could in time become quality first team players but they're clearly not at the moment We finished sixth with the likes of Petrov and Reo-Coker playing. Makoun and Delph are a class above them IMHO. The same team with the same players would not get anywhere near 6 th now. I see what you are saying but everyone around us has upped the anti somewhat. Yeah, I accept that completely. I'm not accepting someone like Makoun being a step down from someone like Reo-Coker, which other people seem to be suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wow. Only just clicked yes and I'm amazed to see how close this poll is. Really does show that some people are never satisfied. I'll keep my input brief because I could write a 3000 word essay on the matter: Randy gave the five-year-plan a fair crack of the whip, but unfortunately our manager left us five days before a season whilst Man City also shat all over the idea from a great height. He can't be expected to reinvest to the extent he had been doing annually as AVFC would become unsustainable, which I'm sure anybody with any sense would not wish to happen. As a result of these setbacks he has had to begin to adopt a more long-term approach and take a step-back from going in with all guns blazing financially speaking. He's also suffered the unfortunate set-back of his previous manager, who looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health, falling ill. None of his first choice replacements were available, so he had to settle for somebody lower down the list, who nevertheless had experience within the league and a proven record within the English game. And yet many disagree with his reign, many of those disagreeing citing our previous victories in the European Cup, our assistance in founding the Football League and six pre-WWI Championships as a measure of our proud history and why we as fans DESERVE to be at the top as a result. Unfortunately, you need money, not history nowadays to win things, so perhaps looking at the situation with a bit of realism rather than blind, prehistoric pride may make a few of the fans that voted 'no' change their mind next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Albrighton, Makoun and Delph are squad players but could in time become quality first team players but they're clearly not at the moment We finished sixth with the likes of Petrov and Reo-Coker playing. Makoun and Delph are a class above them IMHO. The same team with the same players would not get anywhere near 6 th now. I see what you are saying but everyone around us has upped the anti somewhat. Yeah, I accept that completely. I'm not accepting someone like Makoun being a step down from someone like Reo-Coker, which other people seem to be suggesting. My post was in reply to the claims that we have a squad stuffed "with an awful lot of quality first team players"....that somehow we have a better squad now than last season...and that we will finish between "6th (haha) and 9th" It's all opinion - for me Makoun is a player on his way up and not yet a proven first team player, NRC is a player who has peaked and is on his way down. I don't think Makoun is a step down but I also don't buy into the line of thinking that everyone who has now left us is now shit (see the Downing thread). NRC was no superstar but he was a solid, experienced, premiership player - I'm not disputing that Makoun has the potential to be better but he hasn't proved himself yet - let's hope he does! If I was asked to chose between Makoun and NRC I'd go for Makoun but the real issue is that we need replace NRC with someone better (Parker) to compete with Makoun for the holding midlfield position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wow. Only just clicked yes and I'm amazed to see how close this poll is. Really does show that some people are never satisfied. I'll keep my input brief because I could write a 3000 word essay on the matter: Randy gave the five-year-plan a fair crack of the whip, but unfortunately our manager left us five days before a season whilst Man City also shat all over the idea from a great height. He can't be expected to reinvest to the extent he had been doing annually as AVFC would become unsustainable, which I'm sure anybody with any sense would not wish to happen. As a result of these setbacks he has had to begin to adopt a more long-term approach and take a step-back from going in with all guns blazing financially speaking. He's also suffered the unfortunate set-back of his previous manager, who looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health, falling ill. None of his first choice replacements were available, so he had to settle for somebody lower down the list, who nevertheless had experience within the league and a proven record within the English game. And yet many disagree with his reign, many of those disagreeing citing our previous victories in the European Cup, our assistance in founding the Football League and six pre-WWI Championships as a measure of our proud history and why we as fans DESERVE to be at the top as a result. Unfortunately, you need money, not history nowadays to win things, so perhaps looking at the situation with a bit of realism rather than blind, prehistoric pride may make a few of the fans that voted 'no' change their mind next month. There are so many things about this post I disagree with I wouldn't know where to begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yeah, I accept that completely. I'm not accepting someone like Makoun being a step down from someone like Reo-Coker, which other people seem to be suggesting.My apple is better than your orange. Totally different players. One is a passer and one is a tackler. That's simplifying it somewhat, but it's essentialy what it boils down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wow. Only just clicked yes and I'm amazed to see how close this poll is. Really does show that some people are never satisfied. I'll keep my input brief because I could write a 3000 word essay on the matter: Randy gave the five-year-plan a fair crack of the whip, but unfortunately our manager left us five days before a season whilst Man City also shat all over the idea from a great height. He can't be expected to reinvest to the extent he had been doing annually as AVFC would become unsustainable, which I'm sure anybody with any sense would not wish to happen. As a result of these setbacks he has had to begin to adopt a more long-term approach and take a step-back from going in with all guns blazing financially speaking. He's also suffered the unfortunate set-back of his previous manager, who looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health, falling ill. None of his first choice replacements were available, so he had to settle for somebody lower down the list, who nevertheless had experience within the league and a proven record within the English game. And yet many disagree with his reign, many of those disagreeing citing our previous victories in the European Cup, our assistance in founding the Football League and six pre-WWI Championships as a measure of our proud history and why we as fans DESERVE to be at the top as a result. Unfortunately, you need money, not history nowadays to win things, so perhaps looking at the situation with a bit of realism rather than blind, prehistoric pride may make a few of the fans that voted 'no' change their mind next month. There are so many things about this post I disagree with I wouldn't know where to begin Please, elaborate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wow. Only just clicked yes and I'm amazed to see how close this poll is. Really does show that some people are never satisfied. I'll keep my input brief because I could write a 3000 word essay on the matter: Randy gave the five-year-plan a fair crack of the whip, but unfortunately our manager left us five days before a season whilst Man City also shat all over the idea from a great height. He can't be expected to reinvest to the extent he had been doing annually as AVFC would become unsustainable, which I'm sure anybody with any sense would not wish to happen. As a result of these setbacks he has had to begin to adopt a more long-term approach and take a step-back from going in with all guns blazing financially speaking. He's also suffered the unfortunate set-back of his previous manager, who looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health, falling ill. None of his first choice replacements were available, so he had to settle for somebody lower down the list, who nevertheless had experience within the league and a proven record within the English game. And yet many disagree with his reign, many of those disagreeing citing our previous victories in the European Cup, our assistance in founding the Football League and six pre-WWI Championships as a measure of our proud history and why we as fans DESERVE to be at the top as a result. Unfortunately, you need money, not history nowadays to win things, so perhaps looking at the situation with a bit of realism rather than blind, prehistoric pride may make a few of the fans that voted 'no' change their mind next month. There are so many things about this post I disagree with I wouldn't know where to begin Try. I personally think it's bang on and is a very realistic assessment of where we are as a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yeah, I accept that completely. I'm not accepting someone like Makoun being a step down from someone like Reo-Coker, which other people seem to be suggesting.My apple is better than your orange. Totally different players. One is a passer and one is a tackler. That's simplifying it somewhat, but it's essentialy what it boils down to. I've watched Jean II Makoun for a lot of years and I think there's plenty more to him than being a passer. I think he can do everything NRC does almost as well as NRC, as well as actually having the passing ability you refer to. Not suggesting he's 100% the same sort of player, but it's perfectly reasonable to compare two central midfielders even if they aren't exactly the same type of player. I do prefer apples to oranges also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 My post was in reply to the claims that we have a squad stuffed "with an awful lot of quality first team players"....that somehow we have a better squad now than last season...and that we will finish between "6th (haha) and 9th" I still don't think we need to invest too heavily to reach, or beat, the heights of last seasons finish. Last season was poor due to injuries and also because of us trying to take on Houllier's style. In appointing McLeish, we should do better with the squad available as this will be more suited to McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wow. Only just clicked yes and I'm amazed to see how close this poll is. Really does show that some people are never satisfied. I'll keep my input brief because I could write a 3000 word essay on the matter: Randy gave the five-year-plan a fair crack of the whip, but unfortunately our manager left us five days before a season whilst Man City also shat all over the idea from a great height. He can't be expected to reinvest to the extent he had been doing annually as AVFC would become unsustainable, which I'm sure anybody with any sense would not wish to happen. As a result of these setbacks he has had to begin to adopt a more long-term approach and take a step-back from going in with all guns blazing financially speaking. He's also suffered the unfortunate set-back of his previous manager, who looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health, falling ill. None of his first choice replacements were available, so he had to settle for somebody lower down the list, who nevertheless had experience within the league and a proven record within the English game. And yet many disagree with his reign, many of those disagreeing citing our previous victories in the European Cup, our assistance in founding the Football League and six pre-WWI Championships as a measure of our proud history and why we as fans DESERVE to be at the top as a result. Unfortunately, you need money, not history nowadays to win things, so perhaps looking at the situation with a bit of realism rather than blind, prehistoric pride may make a few of the fans that voted 'no' change their mind next month. There are so many things about this post I disagree with I wouldn't know where to begin Try. I personally think it's bang on and is a very realistic assessment of where we are as a club. I havn't got the time or the inclination but here's one for you...."(Houllier) looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health" My missus looks a good bet for the next Miss World title bar her face and huge arse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 My post was in reply to the claims that we have a squad stuffed "with an awful lot of quality first team players"....that somehow we have a better squad now than last season...and that we will finish between "6th (haha) and 9th" I still don't think we need to invest too heavily to reach, or beat, the heights of last seasons finish. Last season was poor due to injuries and also because of us trying to take on Houllier's style. In appointing McLeish, we should do better with the squad available as this will be more suited to McLeish. 9th Whoopee!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I havn't got the time or the inclination but here's one for you...."(Houllier) looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health" My missus looks a good bet for the next Miss World title bar her face and huge arse Way to pussy out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Lower than 4th, to describe them as quality is stretching it a little. They are just good players surely playing in a average side ? World Class - Rooney CL class - Van der Vaart Prem Quality / international - A Young / D.Bent Good player - Albrighton / Gabby (Not in same class as Bent) Quality covers many things, consistency is a major one for me in this. Where can I find this handbook that categorises players? All you have done is taken a term and defined it as you see fit. Anyway I feel like i'm arguing semantics but if I was to use your classification of players then we have a number of prem quality players and a number of good players, the mix of which is better than most teams in the prem and not far behind the likes of Spurs or Liverpool. Next year just like this year it will be tight and their will be some underachievers and with Kenny not having a clue what his first team will be I'll stick my neck out and say they will struggle again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishCockney Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I havn't got the time or the inclination but here's one for you...."(Houllier) looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health" My missus looks a good bet for the next Miss World title bar her face and huge arse Way to pussy out Way too funny for ya!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishCockney Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wow. Only just clicked yes and I'm amazed to see how close this poll is. Really does show that some people are never satisfied. I'll keep my input brief because I could write a 3000 word essay on the matter: Randy gave the five-year-plan a fair crack of the whip, but unfortunately our manager left us five days before a season whilst Man City also shat all over the idea from a great height. He can't be expected to reinvest to the extent he had been doing annually as AVFC would become unsustainable, which I'm sure anybody with any sense would not wish to happen. As a result of these setbacks he has had to begin to adopt a more long-term approach and take a step-back from going in with all guns blazing financially speaking. He's also suffered the unfortunate set-back of his previous manager, who looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health, falling ill. None of his first choice replacements were available, so he had to settle for somebody lower down the list, who nevertheless had experience within the league and a proven record within the English game. And yet many disagree with his reign, many of those disagreeing citing our previous victories in the European Cup, our assistance in founding the Football League and six pre-WWI Championships as a measure of our proud history and why we as fans DESERVE to be at the top as a result. Unfortunately, you need money, not history nowadays to win things, so perhaps looking at the situation with a bit of realism rather than blind, prehistoric pride may make a few of the fans that voted 'no' change their mind next month. There are so many things about this post I disagree with I wouldn't know where to begin Try. I personally think it's bang on and is a very realistic assessment of where we are as a club. I havn't got the time or the inclination but here's one for you...."(Houllier) looked a good long-term appointment bar age and health" My missus looks a good bet for the next Miss World title bar her face and huge arse I have just enough of both time/inclination to say the following... I no longer blindly accept that the Randy Lerner will be a success JUST because he WANTS to do well with our club. Therefore the obvious answer, when faced with the two choices is NO. If there were alternative answers such as: Do you think he's done well... ...Done his best ...Could do better ...Will do better ...Then there is more food for thought. However, with only two options I answered NO and my simple assessment of his reign: Part 1 Starts with a blaze of glory, brings back a feelgood factor, invests healthy amounts but with a manager who wasted a lot of it (50% ish). Allows said manager to continue wasting it until the funds/wages run way too high but doesn't address this issue until it's too late. Is then royally dropped in the shit by same manager for trying to redress financial balance and in doing so breaches the managers contract, rather naively. Part 2 During search for a replacement chooses to maintain some misplaced philosophy on illegal approaches thus ruling out several suitable candidates and then opts for an ageing alternative with a very poor health record, but at least its cheaper than getting the right man from another club! Until we nearly get relegated after a season of the inevitable sick leave and general player/fan mutiny and our season of consolidation turns into 2, minimum. Part 3 Hire another cheap alternative, which is a gamble for several reasons (including being from our rivals, having a poor premiership record, only real success in lower leagues/countries) then cut back on the previous excessive spending and see how we get on after selling most of our best players and have to recycle those players who wanted away from us last year as we can't get shot and can't afford to realise the inevitable losses... If anyone thinks this isn't make it up as you go along comedy of errors type stuff then fair play and I'll have some of what you're drinking... Sure its not for a want of trying to succeed, but like I said at the start, WANT doesnt necessarily equate to ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 And a vast majority of that argument I think is totally spot on. I think Randy also naively only expected to spend so much on players and then to basically stop spending , without realising that to stand still in this league requires spending money on players. English football and the way of transfers being slightly different to American game. Randy even said that it was always known that the spending in year 4 would decrease. Naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etxeberria Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 i think the key word in the opening post is 'currently', and based on this i dont see how any1 could vote yes. The first 4 years were great, yes, but the last 12 months have been so shambolic that its almost deemed them as pointless, as it now feels as though we're pretty much back 2 where we were for the majority of the ellis reign - showing no real direction or ambition and looking forward 2 finishing anywhere from 6th-17th. I would like to believe this is just a blip, but unfortunately the whole vibe coming out of the club suggests otherwise. I know that lerner is a level above ellis as a chairman and all that, but football has moved on so much in the last few years that hes had to be. When put into context with how football has evolved though i dont think we are currently a great deal better off than he arrived, at least in terms of what we can look forward to on the pitch anyway. Ellis sold us just in time before he relegated us. I hope that, if we have another 12 months like the past 12, or if this does turn out 2 be more than just a blip, that lerner will manage to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ The three best posts I've read so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Part 1 Starts with a blaze of glory, brings back a feelgood factor, invests healthy amounts but with a manager who wasted a lot of it (50% ish). Allows said manager to continue wasting it until the funds/wages run way too high but doesn't address this issue until it's too late. Is then royally dropped in the shit by same manager for trying to redress financial balance and in doing so breaches the managers contract, rather naively. Part 2 During search for a replacement chooses to maintain some misplaced philosophy on illegal approaches thus ruling out several suitable candidates and then opts for an ageing alternative with a very poor health record, but at least its cheaper than getting the right man from another club! Until we nearly get relegated after a season of the inevitable sick leave and general player/fan mutiny and our season of consolidation turns into 2, minimum. Part 3 Hire another cheap alternative, which is a gamble for several reasons (including being from our rivals, having a poor premiership record, only real success in lower leagues/countries) then cut back on the previous excessive spending and see how we get on after selling most of our best players and have to recycle those players who wanted away from us last year as we can't get shot and can't afford to realise the inevitable losses... Sums up Randy's tenure quite in 3 paragraphs. For all the superficial good deeds a whole year of poor descision making certainly blots his copy book!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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