snowychap Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The Stephen Fry rant referenced earlier in the thread. He nails it. Much though I like Stephen Fry, I don't think he does. It would appear that he goes too far in the opposite direction, possibly as a result of his attempts to prove to himself that he has been fully unburdened of his own self-confessed inclinations towards pedantry. As a reformed pedant (or rather, an almost reformed pedant), he becomes the worst kind of anti-pedant: one that seeks to caricature the pedants as all of the worst kind, as killers of enjoyment of language; one that dismisses all parts of their argument as naturally untrue, not because they necessarily are (though they can be) but that they need to be (untrue) to support his own argument, and one that mistakenly lauds all of those whose grammar, punctuation, &c. isn't up to scratch as part of a great movement helping the evolution of language. I think it's fine not to know things (see my lack of knowledge about conjunctions and independent clauses exposed in the Murdoch Scum thread) but not really fine to not care* about not knowing (a point he makes but confines to specific areas). Wilde left his publishers to correct the thats, whiches, shoulds, &c.; he didn't leave a note telling them he didn't care. I think it's fine to question rules and accepted usage, to experiment, to push boundaries and to push change but not to present the ignorance of those rules and that usage as necessarily part of the process of the progression of language especially if, as I infer he is suggesting, pedantry is not. Lastly, I also think it's fine to make mistakes. We all do. *Yes, that was intentional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 What if the shop is owned by a Mr or Mrs Chriss? Shouldn't it be "Chriss' " ? My suggestions would be (assuming the format: [owner]'s sarnies): [table] [row][col]Owner[col]Shop name [row][col]Chris[col]Chris's Sarnies [row][col]Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms Chriss[col]Chriss's Sarnies [row][col]Mr and Mrs Chriss[col]Chrisses' Sarnies [/table] I'm sure there will be disagreements with the above, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The Stephen Fry rant referenced earlier in the thread. He nails it. Much though I like Stephen Fry, I don't think he does. It would appear that he goes too far in the opposite direction, possibly as a result of his attempts to prove to himself that he has been fully unburdened of his own self-confessed inclinations towards pedantry. As a reformed pedant (or rather, an almost reformed pedant), he becomes the worst kind of anti-pedant: one that seeks to caricature the pedants as all of the worst kind, as killers of enjoyment of language; one that dismisses all parts of their argument as naturally untrue, not because they necessarily are (though they can be) but that they need to be (untrue) to support his own argument, and one that mistakenly lauds all of those whose grammar, punctuation, &c. isn't up to scratch as part of a great movement helping the evolution of language. I think it's fine not to know things (see my lack of knowledge about conjunctions and independent clauses exposed in the Murdoch Scum thread) but not really fine to not care* about not knowing (a point he makes but confines to specific areas). Wilde left his publishers to correct the thats, whiches, shoulds, &c.; he didn't leave a note telling them he didn't care. I think it's fine to question rules and accepted usage, to experiment, to push boundaries and to push change but not to present the ignorance of those rules and that usage as necessarily part of the process of the progression of language especially if, as I infer he is suggesting, pedantry is not. Lastly, I also think it's fine to make mistakes. We all do. *Yes, that was intentional. I've always maintained that as long as every party in a conversation understands each other it's alright. The rules are there to facilitate this, not provide fodder for (pointless) arguments. Really simple actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillz Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I work at Next and all the posters in the staffroom and shopfloor are terrible. They average 3-4 mistakes per poster. I even saw a price tage earlier which read '£5.5'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Actual label on a packet of (Taiwan-manufactured) flour I saw in a store today. This product is insured for NT20 million dollars against responsibility. It is safe to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 [table] [row][col]Owner[col]Shop name [row][col]Chris[col]Chris's Sarnies [/table] I remember being taught that you can drop the "s" and just use a possessive apostrophe in cases where the owner's name ended in "s" (ergo "Chris' Sarnies"), but then again I did attend Primary school in Scotland and as such was also taught that the Earth is flat and virgins can be burnt to improve harvesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 [table] [row][col]Owner[col]Shop name [row][col]Chris[col]Chris's Sarnies [/table] I remember being taught that you can drop the "s" and just use a possessive apostrophe in cases where the owner's name ended in "s" (ergo "Chris' Sarnies"), but then again I did attend Primary school in Scotland and as such was also taught that the Earth is flat and virgins can be burnt to improve harvesting. I wondered who would be first. :winkold: I think I was taught that, too. I was also taught later to think about it phonetically and that if the second s were to be pronounced (e.g. Odysseus's journey) to put it as s's and if not (e.g. Ulysses' journey) then just s'. Perhaps it suggests that it's not hard and fast; it should be what feels comfortable and, to a degree, makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Ullyses' journey) Ulysses' journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Ullyses' journey) Ulysses' journey. Ha ha ha. Good spot. Amended idiocy in previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I'd hate to disappoint. That phonetic rule does make much more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 [table] [row][col]Owner[col]Shop name [row][col]Chris[col]Chris's Sarnies [/table] I remember being taught that you can drop the "s" and just use a possessive apostrophe in cases where the owner's name ended in "s" (ergo "Chris' Sarnies"), but then again I did attend Primary school in Scotland and as such was also taught that the Earth is flat and virgins can be burnt to improve harvesting. I wondered who would be first. :winkold: I think I was taught that, too. I was also taught later to think about it phonetically and that if the second s were to be pronounced (e.g. Odysseus's journey) to put it as s's and if not (e.g. Ulysses' journey) then just s'. Perhaps it suggests that it's not hard and fast; it should be what feels comfortable and, to a degree, makes sense. I was taught that you always put an 's' on words such as "Chris's". This makes sense to me as the 's make an "iz" sound which would be absent if it wasn't there. The exception to the rule is if the original word already ends in an "iz" sound, in which case it isn't required, eg "Wayne Bridges' girlfriend shagged John Terry." The extra s in this case would make it Wayne Bridgesiz, which just sounds wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Sounds like the guy has a disorder of some kind that is pathological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted May 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) This was you wasnt it, @StefanAVFC? Edited May 19, 2023 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 19, 2023 Author Share Posted May 19, 2023 35 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: This was you wasnt it, @StefanAVFC? Can’t be him , he’d have been changing the sign to “ nonce family waste of tax payers money Tunbridge Wells “ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted May 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Can’t be him , he’d have been changing the sign to “ nonce family waste of tax payers money Tunbridge Wells “ *Turnbridge Well's Edited May 19, 2023 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Timely thread resurrection. Yesterday some clearing in the woods at work quoted something I'd sent them near-verbatim for an email forward (we have to use a SPOC for outbound communication, but they are routinely awful and shouldn't really be sending verbatim quotes out anyway), they went to the lengths of formatting it "like this" to make it absolutely clear it was a quote, then the **** moron decided to insert an erroneous comma in one of my sentences. Livid. Absolutely livid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 19, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, GarethRDR said: we have to use a SPOC for outbound communication I had to use the “look up” thingy on my phone to find out what that is. it said “Are you a sex worker with questions about the laws and the effects on your work and life?” what exactly do you do ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) The answer's in the question. Edited May 19, 2023 by GarethRDR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) (Single Point Of Contact - which itself kinda falls into silly management speak anyway). Edited May 19, 2023 by GarethRDR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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