The Arab Spring and "the War on Terror"

[bickster]

Can you be dead and stateless ?

 

Bin Laden? Pretty sure Saudi Arabia didn't want him when he died

Pretty sure the US buried him at sea without giving anyone a chance to accept the body

[Awol]

The only sure way that the UK has to deal with a problem is extrajudicial execution of its own citizens?

Yep. These people officially gave up on British values the day they went to join IS, they carry a UK passport but they are no more British than a man from Mars.

So we decide how 'British' someone is (and whether or not it's okay for the state to execute them without any sort of due process or legal oversight or whatever) due to some subjective test of whether they've 'given up' on a rather nebulous concept such as British values.

In my warped mind, I have things like the desire for due process, legal oversight and not allowing the state such carte blanche under this banner of 'British values'.

That's fair enough, you view the world one way and I view it another.

For the record, I'm right

[blandy]

Far right, on that, maybe.

[donnie]

The only sure way that the UK has to deal with a problem is extrajudicial execution of its own citizens?

Yep. These people officially gave up on British values the day they went to join IS, they carry a UK passport but they are no more British than a man from Mars.

So we decide how 'British' someone is (and whether or not it's okay for the state to execute them without any sort of due process or legal oversight or whatever) due to some subjective test of whether they've 'given up' on a rather nebulous concept such as British values.

In my warped mind, I have things like the desire for due process, legal oversight and not allowing the state such carte blanche under this banner of 'British values'.

So if you join IS, you are still as British as fish n chips according to Snowychap. I've heard it all now.

[chrisp65]

 

 

 

The only sure way that the UK has to deal with a problem is extrajudicial execution of its own citizens?

Yep. These people officially gave up on British values the day they went to join IS, they carry a UK passport but they are no more British than a man from Mars.

So we decide how 'British' someone is (and whether or not it's okay for the state to execute them without any sort of due process or legal oversight or whatever) due to some subjective test of whether they've 'given up' on a rather nebulous concept such as British values.

In my warped mind, I have things like the desire for due process, legal oversight and not allowing the state such carte blanche under this banner of 'British values'.

So if you join IS, you are still as British as fish n chips according to Snowychap. I've heard it all now.

 

 

well, in that chips are a French creation from the south american potato and fried fish was brought here by the jewish community....that's probably not a bad comparison

[rendelc]

 

The only sure way that the UK has to deal with a problem is extrajudicial execution of its own citizens?

Yep. These people officially gave up on British values the day they went to join IS, they carry a UK passport but they are no more British than a man from Mars.

They are the enemy, plain and simple. That's why this trite shite from government about re-engaging jihadis with British society is so pathetic. They hate us, our democracy and everything about our way of life. There is and can never be a compromise with them, and frankly we shouldn't have to.

If they want to go and engage in genocide that is their call. In doing so they explicitly reject civilization in favour of chaos and slaughter. This isn't the IRA, they don't have rules.

Once they cross that line they are irredeemable in my view. Far better them dead than some poor innocent on a British street.

 

Best post ever .  

[Awol]

Far right, on that, maybe.

I'd prefer 'pragmatic', but understand the proposal won't get me a date with Ms Chakrabarti.

[snowychap]

So if you join IS, you are still as British as fish n chips according to snowychap.

If they were British in the first place then as British as you or me or Awol. Edited November 25, 2014 by snowychap

[omariqy]

I see where Awol is coming from in terms of they have turned their back on Britain so should we help them.  Then again I think every case is different and you would need to assess each individuals circumstances independently before throwing a blanket over everyone. 

[Awol]

So if you join IS, you are still as British as fish n chips according to snowychap.

If they were British in the first place then as British as you or me or Awol.

If someone swans off to join the Islamic State then I'd argue they are voluntarily surrendering their UK citizenship (joint citizenship might be a little problematic in this instance) and those then seeking to return could be classified as enemy combatants.

Although we haven't officially declared war on IS, the fact we are killing them in theatre with special forces and air strikes signifies they are enemies of the UK. I don't see why that distinction should end when IS members leave a defined geographic area.

[Ads]

I think the control orders for the returning Jihadis are a good thing for intelligence gathering. For example, we lost a lot of human intelligence in Anbar following Barry’s hasty withdrawal, but this creates an opportunity.

 

If you’re a non-Arabic speaker from Tower Hamlets whose experiences of war stretch no further that playing CoD and watching Takfiri head choppy porn, then the chances are you will return from your Jihad pretty disillusioned. Those with this sort of back ground and lack of applicable skills who don’t return will largely be because they’ve become human ordinance.

 

This is the thing with IS, they increase their manpower rapidly through assimilation of other groups, without anywhere near the selection process of JaN. This exposes them to infiltration and that can be both in country or back home. Thhe attrition rates the have suffered around Kobane and more intensely elsewhere against the Syrian Army have been very easily replaced, so this swallowing of other groups whole, especially as winter approaches, wont change.

 

Mi5/6 will be crawling all over Turkey putting a comforting arm around poor Little Johnny Jihad I would imagine. He will be so desperate to come back to Lahndan town for his Wi-Fi and his sugar coated cereal that you would imagine he’d be very amenable to security service handlers.

[Awol]

Put another way, if it's fair game to kill British citizens in Syria and Iraq, why is it wrong to kill the same people in continental Europe?

[Awol]

Mi5/6 will be crawling all over Turkey putting a comforting arm around poor Little Johnny Jihad I would imagine. He will be so desperate to come back to Lahndan town for his Wi-Fi and his sugar coated cereal that you would imagine he’d be very amenable to security service handlers.

Of course the theory is good, until it isn't - see Lee Rigby's killers.

[TrentVilla]

 

Far right, on that, maybe.

I'd prefer 'pragmatic', but understand the proposal won't get me a date with Ms Chakrabarti.

 

 

I've always kind of assumed nothing would get you a date with her due to your possession of a penis.

[Awol]

Far right, on that, maybe.

I'd prefer 'pragmatic', but understand the proposal won't get me a date with Ms Chakrabarti.

I've always kind of assumed nothing would get you a date with her due to your possession of a penis.

I think they are allowed, but must be detachable and fit in her purse.

[snowychap]

...why is it wrong to kill the same people in continental Europe?

Indeed. Or within the UK itself - without trial, due process and so on and at the whim of the authorities. Edited November 25, 2014 by snowychap

[TrentVilla]

I see where Awol is coming from in terms of they have turned their back on Britain so should we help them.  Then again I think every case is different and you would need to assess each individuals circumstances independently before throwing a blanket over everyone. 

 

I'm not saying I agree with AWOL (Sorry Donnie) or Snowy, my view is somewhere in the middle of a sliding scale between the two but I'm not sure I understand your point here.

 

I'm reading it like you are implying that there may well be some justification for the actions of a British citizen joining ISIS and taking part in their actions in the Middle East when you say each case should be assessed individually.

 

Now knowing you as a poster I don't actually think that is what you are saying so I'm guessing I'm reading it wrong, please clarify.

 

I guess it would be relatively difficult to know if someone went Syria to fight for ISIS or if they went to fight against Assad and my view on their remaining 'Britishness' would I think be massively different in those two examples.

 

So if that is what you meant then I probably agree with you.

 

 

 

Far right, on that, maybe.

I'd prefer 'pragmatic', but understand the proposal won't get me a date with Ms Chakrabarti.

I've always kind of assumed nothing would get you a date with her due to your possession of a penis.

I think they are allowed, but must be detachable and fit in her purse.

 

 

Oh well in that case, I stand corrected you are back in the running.

[astondalston]

Inadvertently hilarious timing of Snowy's post above.....!

[omariqy]

I see where Awol is coming from in terms of they have turned their back on Britain so should we help them. Then again I think every case is different and you would need to assess each individuals circumstances independently before throwing a blanket over everyone.

I guess it would be relatively difficult to know if someone went Syria to fight for ISIS or if they went to fight against Assad and my view on their remaining 'Britishness' would I think be massively different in those two examples.

So if that is what you meant then I probably agree with you.

Yes sorry that is sort of what I meant. Quite a few have gone out there to provide aid and help the suffering. There's a danger that they too get swept up in being labelled terrorists.

[blandy]

 

 

 

Far right, on that, maybe.

I'd prefer 'pragmatic', but understand the proposal won't get me a date with Ms Chakrabarti.

I've always kind of assumed nothing would get you a date with her due to your possession of a penis.

I think they are allowed, but must be detachable and fit in her purse.

 

sexist shite, those posts. no need, IMO.