Barry Bannan

[foreveryoung]

So much this.

People also dont seem to understand that Lambert is telling him to do these things. He doesn't just go out there on game day and play however he feels, hes following orders.

Also if I actually have to list the players who give a shit about the team and make an effort Bannan would be in my top 5 for both.

So Lambert asks Bannan to float corners in, miss place passes, get caught in possesion and over kick crosses. Then Lsmbert out!!!!

[Brumstopdogs]

Bannan shouldn't make the first team squad and should be given a free transfer first thing tomorrow morning.

[Swerbs]

If Bannan is told to put in those floaty corners then why are Westwood's and N'Zogbia's whipped in with pace?

[AndyM3000]

If Bannan is told to put in those floaty corners then why are Westwood's and N'Zogbia's whipped in with pace?

 

Westwood's aren't at all (see goal v Reading) and it will come down to if we play Benteke. During the cup game v Ipswich Bannan whipped them in because he wasn't playing.

 

Benteke will win every header and out jump/power defenders if he can meet the ball at the right moment so it makes sense to float it in, by whipping it harder there is less chance he gets it and its harder to attack it.

[Keyblade]

I've noticed he's rated fairly highly by other fans. He's got a 3 page thread about him on that United board .

[AstonMartin82]

Sorry, the opposite is true. It's 2013 now Dr_Pangloss and the game's changed.

 

Until whoscored.com and squawka.com existed sharing high-quality match data and statistics for free, all football fans could do to judge players and performances was

 

* listen to what the manager said

* read what the journalists said

* think about what they remembered from watching the game

 

Opinions could be based on faulty memories, propaganda from the manager, agenda of the media, assertion and petty biases ... and nobody would know any different.

 

Now we have statistics available to test all these opinions. They are free and available to all.

 

They shine their own independent light on what happened during a game.

 

This genie is not going back in the bottle - increasingly fans will be more educated about their players from statistics and not citing them will be seen as being stupid.

 

 

On something which is a fairly diverse subject, like how good a football player is, you can find a stat to prove or disprove anything that you like. I'd imagine you could argue any player in the PL to be one of the best when in reality is he isn't.

 

Stats can also be interpreted differently by different people. The heat map certainly isn't an absolute to prove anything.

 

If I got paid £20k a week to train, and be given the very best support and equipment in the world to run a marathon once a week I would be able to do it until my body physically couldn't handle it.

 

Just because I run around a lot doesn't relate to how good I am to a footballer.

Just because I can kick a ball fairly accurately over a space of 30 yards doesn't strongly relate to how good I am as a footballer. Some of the most skillful people in the world will never even get close to making it at a good level in the PL. Remember the adverts where the person in the park having a picnic does some keepy-ups whilst lying on his back and then turning around? Probably won't be able to get much more skillful than that... but he probably couldn't even make it semi-professional.

 

I'd argue that if Bannan was a bit better in keeping possession, and was a bit stronger in midfield then perhaps he wouldn't have to run all over the place and then his heat map would look totally different.

 

When was the last time you saw a player of Bannan's physical presence succeed in being an accomplished PL footballer? The only player I can think of ever is Ramieres... and he gets by because he's an incredibly talented player. Any other teams have such a weakling in center mid?

 

Ashley Young is about the only player who with the same strength and you wouldn't see him in a million years trying to pull off the same things as Bannan.

 

Bannan IMO has the attributes of a winger... though not in the PL... he simply isn't good enough... a winger in League One.

[Con]

Pay attention.

 

That wasn't Bannan's heat map. It said "WBA: Action Heat Map"

 

Please read my posts and the heat map before criticising my use of it and giving me a lecture about statistics.

 

This map didn't take very long to do but it took more effort than 99% of posts on here have taken.

 

 

[AstonMartin82]

Pay attention.

 

That wasn't Bannan's heat map. It said "WBA: Action Heat Map"

 

Please read my posts and the heat map before criticising my use of it and giving me a lecture about statistics.

 

This map didn't take very long to do but it took more effort than 99% of posts on here have taken.

 

 

 

 

You shouldn't get so defensive. The point of the post is still correct... you can get stats to prove anything that you want.

 

At the end of the day I don't think Bannan is good enough to cut it in the Premier League. This is my opinion and finding the odd rose in a whole hedge of thorns isn't going to change that. Bannan can't break into the worst Scottish team in around 50 years...

 

I appreciate the effort he puts in on the pitch, but then if you paid anyone on this site the amount he get paid they would do the same.

[Con]

You shouldn't get so defensive. The point of the post is still correct... you can get stats to prove anything that you want.

 

Nonsense cliche. I can't use Van Persie's stats to prove he is a bad striker. I can't use Bannan's stats to prove he is as good as Iniesta.

 

 

At the end of the day I don't think Bannan is good enough to cut it in the Premier League. This is my opinion and finding the odd rose in a whole hedge of thorns isn't going to change that. Bannan can't break into the worst Scottish team in around 50 years...

 

Morrison is more experienced and ahead of Bannan.

 

The "odd rose" you admit exists would be his crossing ability. The rest of his game needs to step up but compared to other Premier League CMs he's not as far behind as you are suggesting.

 

I appreciate the effort he puts in on the pitch, but then if you paid anyone on this site the amount he get paid they would do the same.

 

You could compliment him for working hard rather than belittle his effort.  

 

If you want to complain about people who earn a lot of money for little effort I wouldn't start with footballers.

[AndyBM]

ive gone from disliking this kid, to liking him, to disliking him again

 

add to the fact that he seems to be causing many arguments on here, it would seem the better option to sell him and buy someone new who we know can contribute more and be more benfitical as a starter and not just a squad player

 

as its been said many a time on here, he will not cut it as a premier league player, maybe championship, maybe scottish league, but where we need to be? no chance

 

it will be of no great loss to sell him, however, replacing him is the issue, i think were only playing him as we have nobody else

 

lets look at an example, cahill, came to us for nothing, sold him for i cant remember, but replaced him with davies for £10m who was sh ite, meaning, we miss cahill, however, had we bought someone better than cahill, we wouldnt be so distraught, what im saying is we need to find someone better than bannan and not replace him with sh it

 

milner ireland being another example, carew heskey being another

[Kingfisher]

When was the last time you saw a player of Bannan's physical presence succeed in being an accomplished PL footballer?

Alan Wright? 

[mikeyp102]

When was the last time you saw a player of Bannan's physical presence succeed in being an accomplished PL footballer? in League

David silva, joe Allen, Leon Britton

[AstonMartin82]

This is genuinely amazing how far you are willing to go to try and defend the almost indefensible. You are either Barry Bannan himself or you know him personally as it feels as though you are fighting a very personal crusade... anyhow... 

 

 

VillaLi0n, on 27 Jan 2013 - 13:17, said:

 

At the end of the day I don't think Bannan is good enough to cut it in the Premier League. This is my opinion and finding the odd rose in a whole hedge of thorns isn't going to change that. Bannan can't break into the worst Scottish team in around 50 years...

Morrison is more experienced and ahead of Bannan.

 

The "odd rose" you admit exists would be his crossing ability. The rest of his game needs to step up but compared to other Premier League CMs he's not as far behind as you are suggesting.

 

 

"Compared to other Premier League CMs". Let's remember that part.

 

And your comment about him not being in the Scotland squad because of Morrison's experience... there is more than one midfield position available in the squad. In fact there is probably about 5. He didn't cut it out of any of those (and I'm not sure if even Morrison made it into the last squad either?!). Hide the reason under experience if you like, but it's clear as ice it's for another reason to me.

 

(ps - how much crossing does a CM get to do?! - as I said in a previous post the guy is more a winger than a central midfielder though he is no where near a good enough one to make it in the PL so he is trying to adapt into a position which he is unsuitable for.)

 

 

 

 

VillaLi0n, on 27 Jan 2013 - 13:17, said:

You shouldn't get so defensive. The point of the post is still correct... you can get stats to prove anything that you want.

 

Nonsense cliche. I can't use Van Persie's stats to prove he is a bad striker. I can't use Bannan's stats to prove he is as good as Iniesta.

 

 

 

Van Persie and Iniesta are the exception not the rule. Talk about going to the extreme to try to validate a point. So, above you write "other PL footballers". There are so many stats for other PL footballers (not the best players in the world... the others!) that you will be able to find anything in there to make him look good. Besides, I'm not stating he is rubbish at everything... he's just not a good PL footballer as a whole. Remember we are Aston Villa not Wigan Athletic. We are a big club and should be capable of attracting big players... players that are better than the ones coming through the academy.

 

 

 

 

VillaLi0n, on 27 Jan 2013 - 13:17, said:

I appreciate the effort he puts in on the pitch, but then if you paid anyone on this site the amount he get paid they would do the same.

 

 

 

You could compliment him for working hard rather than belittle his effort.  

 

If you want to complain about people who earn a lot of money for little effort I wouldn't start with footballers.

 

 

I expect a certain standard. Aston Villa expect a certain standard. It's my right as a paying customer. If the return is less than the expected standard I can state it. I am stating it. It's not good enough and effort alone gets you only so far and you're saying I should have to be grateful that someone who is doing something which they have always dreamed of is motivated enough to try hard? Please. To suggest that I should compliment him for that is taking the piss a little bit. Surely you see that?

If I have a chap at work who I like and he puts a lot of effort in but he isn't good enough for the role then ultimately he isn't good enough for the role. I'm not keeping him on... he's going. It's business and it holds no sentiment. Bannan isn't good enough. Simples.

 

Just stating my opinion...

Edited January 27, 2013 by VillaLi0n

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

It is true that the game is favouring small, technical players more than ever, and Lambert seems to be convinced that going down that road is the best route to success in the long term. I get that, as tackling is slowly but surely being eradicated from the game, so physicality will become less important. However, that is still a few years away yet in this league, and in the mean time we are getting battered by stronger teams.

 

Bannan may well go on to be a decent player at this level but at the moment he is woefully inadequate in a role we so desperately need filled by a physical presence.

[AstonMartin82]

Alan Wright? 

 

 

David silva, joe Allen, Leon Britton

 

How many of those are CM's? And if they are, are they really established? Ask Liverpool fans what they think.

 

But anyway, I think that proves how far down you have had to dig to try and find someone.

[AstonMartin82]

Look at this heat map of the WB game. Bannan was playing sub for Delph from about 50 min in the second half.

Remember Bannan was blamed for the result? "Weak and bullied in midfield?" That's a myth.

 

We were not dominated in CM. We didn't lose the game because we were "bullied" or did not control the midfield.

 

What's happened - what the heat map proves - they got in behind on our flanks.

 

That's tactics, which is the responsibility of the manager choosing 343 over 442, and the quality of WBs playing the WB system - they're not getting forward to support the attack (like Ridgewell is), keeping the ball at the other end so they can't attack our flanks.

 

People can come up with stats to prove anything. 14% of people know that. Geeeez.

 

[Majkee]

It is true that the game is favouring small, technical players more than ever, and Lambert seems to be convinced that going down that road is the best route to success in the long term. I get that, as tackling is slowly but surely being eradicated from the game, so physicality will become less important. However, that is still a few years away yet in this league, and in the mean time we are getting battered by stronger teams.

 

Bannan may well go on to be a decent player at this level but at the moment he is woefully inadequate in a role we so desperately need filled by a physical presence.

But we can not afford to have a team full of CM midgets in PL.

I do not know what is so hard to grasp here on forum why some small players are able to be a success in PL. They must excell in one or two other aspects of the game, at least they must be able to create a space for themselves not to be overpoered and they must have a very very good technique to skip opposition players (i.e. David Silva, Ben Arfa etc.). Bannan has neither. I was convinced he has a very good technique - in some article on OS they wrote about what a tricks he is doing in the training one on one but I can not see it in at least one match. Either he can not use it under pressure or he really does not know it.

Little bit out of topic - this is something why is i.e. Vladimir Weiss Jr. so wanted in Serie A - he has a full backpack of tricks and he is trying them in the matches. Sometimes it creates chances or goals, sometimes not, but at least he is trying TO CREATE. I can not see anything similar in Bannan.

[AshVilla]

Because he has a limited skill set he does not have the quality to play in the premier league

[Kingfisher]

How many of those are CM's? And if they are, are they really established? Ask Liverpool fans what they think.

 

But anyway, I think that proves how far down you have had to dig to try and find someone.

Wright was a defender, size is more important there yet he made it. Hight wise loads of great midfielders are 5'7. I don't think size is the issue here. 

[Con]

How many of those are CM's? And if they are, are they really established? Ask Liverpool fans what they think.

 

But anyway, I think that proves how far down you have had to dig to try and find someone.

 

You are referring to English football? It is very easy to find 'short' top players abroad. You need to do your own research on this, visit some wikipedia pages. 

 

English football, Allen, Brittan, Rosicky, Mata. Fabragas, Gordon Strachan, Ossie Ardiles.

 

The template is well established even in English football you don't have to "dig" very far at all if you have a normal amount of knowledge of the game.