Next leader of the Labour Party should be.....

[blandy]

...during elections when the Labour vote drops off it has a tendancy to go to BNP, certainly all the elections I have witnessed

What about the last one? It didn't then, did it? As for others, I have no idea. The BNP went down, as did Labour. Lib Dems went up a bit (though they got less seats) and the Tories went up and they got a lot more seats.

I'm sure in some localities people would have switched between BNP and Labour, and in others between Tories and BNP, but TBH I don't think there's sufficient historical data to support a claim that voters are more likely to switch from Labour to BNP or Tories to BNP. BNP is just racist, and sometimes with limited "success" they've nabbed votes from disenchanted people, upset with local conditions, or percieved weaknesses of whoever is their local MP or Party.

If you take an example of a poor area with high levels of immigration, or mixed communities, even if Labour's vote goes down, who is to say that isn't because the Labour voting immigrants, or descendants from immigrants, haven't abandoned Labour and not voted, and other people, white, Labour/Tory/Whoever voters haven't gone for the BNP?

It seems very simplistic to say that BNP attracts voters from one party or the other.

[Ads]

On the issues of Immigration, Multiculturalism and Europe they are closely linked to the Conservatives.

Because...

[Ads]

The BNP have no immigration or multicultural policies. Instead they have their racially driven ideology.

Their other socialist policies are simply window dressing to lure in the disillusioned white working class voter, hoping they’ll either buy into their racial prejudices or feel comfortable enough to ignore them because somebody is "sticking up for the working man”. They're trying to fill the vacuum left after Labour re-invented itself with the Third Way, but they won’t succeed.

[avfc89]

On the issues of Immigration, Multiculturalism and Europe they are closely linked to the Conservatives.

Because...

I think it's your task to disprove my theory Ads In all seriousness, it's acknowledged that the Conservatives embody all that I have mentioned above.

[Ads]

You haven’t given a theory, you’ve given a statement. Conservatives embody what? Immigration, multiculturalism and Europe?

[leviramsey]

On the issue of Europe, is it not the case that the Old Labour was opposed to British membership in the EU's predecessor organisations?

One party, one year"]

The next $PARTY government, committed to ... policies for reviving the British economy, is bound to find continued membership a most serious obstacle to the fulfilment of those policies.... y preventing us from buying food from the best sources of world supply, they would run counter to our plans to control prices and inflation.

For all these reasons, British withdrawal from the Community is the right policy for Britain - to be completed well within the lifetime of the parliament. That is our commitment.

We are not 'withdrawing from Europe'.

Another party, another year"]

$PARTY loves Europe but hates the [Community]

$PARTY demands an immediate withdrawal from the European Union.

By conducting our own trading agreements, we will be in a position to scrap EU imposed quotas and tariffs on agricultural goods. The cost of these restrictions to the family food bill is as much as £1,000 per annum.

Being anti-Europe is entirely consistent with the BNP as the substitute for Old Labour.

(tbf, of the four long-time "cardinal" parties, only the BNP (and its predecessors) and the Liberals have been consistent over the past 50 or so years in terms of their positions on Europe)

[avfc89]

You haven’t given a theory, you’ve given a statement. Conservatives embody what? Immigration, multiculturalism and Europe?

Ads - I think it's commonly known the Conservatives are pro-British, European skeptics, and against multiculturalism. There's many examples of racism by individuals who represent the Conservative party and I believe that's no coincidence. Homosexuality is also an issue which the two parties blend in Ideology.

I'm not saying Tory voters are prejudice people, I just believe the party embodies similar characteristics to the BNP. Obviously, the BNP are on a completely different scale in their policies.

[Ads]

I’d say both Labour and the Conservative occupy a pro-British stance. As current and former governments, it’s their job to do so.

I’m fairly certain there are members of every mainstream political party who harbour some fairly nasty prejudices. This is not the same as ideology.

Take a look at the Political Compass link. It’s by no means the definitive article, but it does give you a more relevant perspective on where parties or individuals lie in the spectrum. The BNP are a fascist party and far removed from Conservative/conservative economic and social ideology. What it says is true, that the extra support seen in the 2009 Euro elections comes from Old Labour strongholds.

[avfc89]

I’d say both Labour and the Conservative occupy a pro-British stance. As current and former governments, it’s their job to do so.

I’m fairly certain there are members of every mainstream political party who harbour some fairly nasty prejudices. This is not the same as ideology.

Take a look at the Political Compass link. It’s by no means the definitive article, but it does give you a more relevant perspective on where parties or individuals lie in the spectrum. The BNP are a fascist party and far removed from Conservative/conservative economic and social ideology. What it says is true, that the extra support seen in the 2009 Euro elections comes from Old Labour strongholds.

It was an extremely low turn out, so it's hard to determine whether the voters were members of any party political party in the past.

[thetrees]

I'm not saying Tory voters are prejudice people, I just believe the party embodies similar characteristics to the BNP. Obviously, the BNP are on a completely different scale in their policies.

Strip away their racist policies and the BNP are the most socialist party of any prominence, as far removed from Conservatism as you could get.

[avfc89]

I'm not saying Tory voters are prejudice people, I just believe the party embodies similar characteristics to the BNP. Obviously, the BNP are on a completely different scale in their policies.

Strip away their racist policies and the BNP are the most socialist party of any prominence, as far removed from Conservatism as you could get.

The BNP are not socialists by any means. There socialism doesn't exist once they start discriminating against people of different ethnicity.

[Chindie]

I'm not saying Tory voters are prejudice people, I just believe the party embodies similar characteristics to the BNP. Obviously, the BNP are on a completely different scale in their policies.

Strip away their racist policies and the BNP are the most socialist party of any prominence, as far removed from Conservatism as you could get.

The BNP are not socialists by any means. There socialism doesn't exist once they start discriminating against people of different ethnicity.

National socialism - they pretty much define the term. If you are in their clique - they wish to look after you.

[avfc89]

If you are in their clique - they wish to look after you.

Exactly.

[Chindie]

But that ideal of looking after anyone is one that is left leaning.

The Coinservatives, to be blunt and basic (and in some way wrong but lets run with it), tell you to help yourself. The BNP, and Labour (traditionally), say we'll help you. Thats something a traditional Conservative would not, and it's a fundamental aspect of why the BNP is closer to Labour's heartland than the Conservatives.

If you can't accept that... you're just wrong.

[JulieB]

In answer to the thread title...

Preferably someone who can get to grips with the excessive public spending & some of the stomach churning pay awards granted to the inevitable quangos... & their consultants...

Following on from revelations that 1 lady civil servant was being paid £85,000 per annum for working 1 day a week.....I'm just reading that a consultant firm set up by a former employee was paid £149,500 by HMRC for 3months work beyond his leaving date.......this makes me smile as by setting up a Limited Company to be paid through this guy clearly avoided paying higher rate tax whilst still continuing to work for HMRC!!

You've just gotta laugh!

Chief information officer Deepak Singh was paid £149,500 by HMRC to work three months beyond his leaving date.

Revenue & Customs paid senior official Singh the six figure sum for the period 19 June 2009 to 18 September 2009, accounts filed by the tax office show.

Singh had a three year contract at HMRC earning £160,000 per annum, ending in June last year.

However, for three months from 19 June to 18 September, HMRC paid Singh £149,500 through his company Orwell Consulting.

Listed under "Third party payments for services of a senior manager", HMRC's accounts show £149,500 was paid to Orwell Consulting Ltd "for the services of Deepak Singh (a director of that company) who held the position of Acting Chief Information Officer".

Singh said he informed the tax office of his daily rate and it was "willing" to pay it, according to reports.

HMRC's decision to allow Singh to be paid through his consultancy business would have substantially cut the former CIO's tax liabilities.

Singh is liable for corporation tax of up to 28%, significantly lower than the higher-rate of income tax of 40%.

HMRC is reported as saying it will ensure no tax is avoided as a result of the arrangement.

[avfc89]

But that ideal of looking after anyone is one that is left leaning.

The Coinservatives, to be blunt and basic (and in some way wrong but lets run with it), tell you to help yourself. The BNP, and Labour (traditionally), say we'll help you. Thats something a traditional Conservative would not, and it's a fundamental aspect of why the BNP is closer to Labour's heartland than the Conservatives.

If you can't accept that... you're just wrong.

I can accept they use mechanisms of the Left, but once they start discriminating they are not socialists. Socialism is about unity not segregation.

[chrisp65]

But that ideal of looking after anyone is one that is left leaning.

The Coinservatives, to be blunt and basic (and in some way wrong but lets run with it), tell you to help yourself. The BNP, and Labour (traditionally), say we'll help you. Thats something a traditional Conservative would not, and it's a fundamental aspect of why the BNP is closer to Labour's heartland than the Conservatives.

If you can't accept that... you're just wrong.

I can accept they use mechanisms of the Left, but once they start discriminating they are not socialists. Socialism is about unity not segregation.

they are extremists. Whichever direction you set out in as an extremist, you just end up around the back with the nutters from the other side.

[Chindie]

I can accept they use mechanisms of the Left, but once they start discriminating they are not socialists. Socialism is about unity not segregation.

All working 'socialism' discriminates. It has to.

They take it to the next stage.

The only perfect system of socialism is one without borders and without boundaries, and that doesn't, and has never existed, and is unlikely to. Thus, we accept that socialism is something that can describe a less than perfect example of it but bearing the hallmarks - society, the state, providing for those they accept into it.

Thus, national socialism, is still a form of socialism, if a limited and oxymoronic one.

[avfc89]

I can accept they use mechanisms of the Left, but once they start discriminating they are not socialists. Socialism is about unity not segregation.

All working 'socialism' discriminates. It has to.

They take it to the next stage.

The only perfect system of socialism is one without borders and without boundaries, and that doesn't, and has never existed, and is unlikely to. Thus, we accept that socialism is something that can describe a less than perfect example of it but bearing the hallmarks - society, the state, providing for those they accept into it.

Thus, national socialism, is still a form of socialism, if a limited and oxymoronic one.

I'm not trying to negate your evidence, I'm sure it's true. My original point was the BNP were more closely linked with the Conservatives, I still believe this to be correct.

[Ads]

Haha!