Next leader of the Labour Party should be.....

[avfc89]

How many politics topics have featured pictures of monkey’s recently?

How many have featured personal abuse coming from Tory supporters? Many.

[snowychap]

Pathetic

Typical Tory voters. No class.

Careful, some Tory voters used to be Labour voters and vice versa.

In addition I thought you socialists were all of the opinion that the trouble with Tories was that we enforced the class divide too much, how can that be if it is typical for a Tory to have no class?

Mixing up two different meanings of the word, there, I think, Richard.

[bickster]

How many politics topics have featured pictures of monkey’s recently?

How many have featured personal abuse coming from Tory supporters? Many.

Point some personal abuse out and I'll deal with it. If however you are referring to abuse directed towards public figures such as politicians, then that is both perfectly acceptable and is participated in fully by some posters on both sides of the traditional red / blue divide. Public figures by their very nature (politicians included) by their very nature are there to be pilloried and have the piss ripped out of them. When political parties stop taking image seriously themselves then maybe just maybe us common folk might just take the words, which usually lets face it have little substance, a bit more seriously.

[avfc89]

How many politics topics have featured pictures of monkey’s recently?

How many have featured personal abuse coming from Tory supporters? Many.

Point some personal abuse out and I'll deal with it. If however you are referring to abuse directed towards public figures such as politicians, then that is both perfectly acceptable and is participated in fully by some posters on both sides of the traditional red / blue divide. Public figures by their very nature (politicians included) by their very nature are there to be pilloried and have the piss ripped out of them. When political parties stop taking image seriously themselves then maybe just maybe us common folk might just take the words, which usually lets face it have little substance, a bit more seriously.

I just want a serious debate on this thread; I'm tired of the abuse being spouted by the same culprits who want to sabotage this thread because they don't agree with the Labour party.

[blandy]

They actually have personalities? Apart from Diane Abbot don't they all look exactly the same?

It's the same with Clegg, Osbourne, Cameron and the Tories - Politicians turned into polished and modelled family friendly, voter friendly say nothing of any consequence (or get shut out of the way while there's voting to be done).

it seems that some are more concerned with the appearance than what they stand for and what they will bring to the party. What a shame that the world of the Pop-Idol politician is so key for some, maybe again its the marketing world that some bring into this.

The current style of politics is no ones fault but the public's, who have been placated by mass consumerism and a plastic, self absorbed, me me me, now now now, culture that surrounds us. ...As a result what we get are bland, faceless puppets who have the same mannerisms and speak in the same, neutral tone. And the decision men know this, and they play on it. They aren't to blame, as they only reflect what the public desires...

I think it's not so much the public that are to balme as the Politicians fear of the public (and the media). The way it seems to work with the public is that the rare politicians who say what they think, who show independence of thought, genuine character are those that are consistently the most widely admired. Whatever your standpoint it's hard to argue that MPs like Tony Benn, Claire Short, William Hague, Charles Kennedy and a few others aren't more widely liked or admired than the more homogenous tow the party line types in all the parties. People admire those who rebel against their leadership on points of principle.

The media on the other hand talk about "Gaffes" (when someone says something that is what they really feel or believe, but doesn't tie in with declared party policy). Then the MP has to "apologise" or eat humble pie.

So what I'm trying to say is it's the politicians who are to blame, not the public. They are scared of their party, scared of the whips, scared of anyone finding out they are a "real person". Then there's the other level - some of them have spent so long having all their rough edges smoothed by media consultants and advisors, that they actually don't have any character, they just live in their wierd bubble of ambition and the greasy pole and lose all the connection they once had with "us" out here in real world (assuming they aren't over priveledged millionaires to start with, who only ever connected with other millionaires anyway).

[wiganvillain]

I just want a serious debate on this thread; I'm tired of the abuse being spouted by the same culprits who want to sabotage this thread because they don't agree with the Labour party.

When politicians start taking the public seriously we'll have a serious debate on here, as it is how can high farce not be humourous

[bickster]

How many politics topics have featured pictures of monkey’s recently?

How many have featured personal abuse coming from Tory supporters? Many.

Point some personal abuse out and I'll deal with it. If however you are referring to abuse directed towards public figures such as politicians, then that is both perfectly acceptable and is participated in fully by some posters on both sides of the traditional red / blue divide. Public figures by their very nature (politicians included) by their very nature are there to be pilloried and have the piss ripped out of them. When political parties stop taking image seriously themselves then maybe just maybe us common folk might just take the words, which usually lets face it have little substance, a bit more seriously.

I just want a serious debate on this thread; I'm tired of the abuse being spouted by the same culprits who want to sabotage this thread because they don't agree with the Labour party.

Exactly the same happens on topics about the Conservative or Liberal parties by supporters of the other sides. Its always going to happen, but it only annoys people that have a side to support imo and it never annoys those people when its done in topics about the other side, they usually laugh or join in. Politics gets to people like that. Same happens both ways, best think to do if you don't like those type of comments is to just ignore them and carry on the actual debate without resorting to commenting on the type of posts that annoy you. But the whole thing is inevitable when there are "sides". (its no different to football in that respect)

[tonyh29]

Who is that website? - Oh that's right a very right wing biased set of individuals

is it ? .. .I'll happily admit i'm not as up on Uber right wing web sites as you are so I'll bow down to your vast experience on them but I would think the VT site might not be happy about your libeling websites without proof so it may be an idea if you post evidence to back your claims up , just to be on the safe side

that aside it doesn't actually make the facts any less real , there are nice youtube video's and everything ..or did they fake them ?

vindicating your support of Gove

as always , point me to any part of the interweb where i have actually voiced my support of Gove ..... i suspect you'll be gone a while .

The internet is littered with hundreds possibly thousands of articles from more fair minded people that have totally shredded Gove and his actions to date

and yet you failed to even link to one to back up your claim ..I'm a fair man i wont hold you to thousands of them , just link to a few hundred and I'll concede you have a point

meanwhile , I believe the main point of this thread was to discuss which one of the 5 candidates was going to lose the next election ...

[drat01]

but I would think the VT site might not be happy about your libeling websites without proof so it may be an idea if you post evidence to back your claims up , just to be on the safe side

:-) what bollox - apparently that word is allowed. That is a website that has very right wing, i.e. Tory views - that is not libel and you know it

As for Gove and his inadequacies

- Lets start with a favourite of the right John Redwood

- Oooh look the Torygraph talking about his groveling apology

- The grudinad has a go

- The mirror as you would expect

- Cambridge University don't seem to like his ideas

- Expres and Star reporting outrage against him

etc etc etc.

But as you rightly say this is nowt to do with the incompetents we have in power at the moment, nor is it to do with their attacks on the weak nor is it about their lies and deceit, this is about the Labour leadership.

[avfc89]

I'm sorry Bickster, it is well known there's a Tory clique on this forum. I have no problem with Tory supporters who offer a constructive view to a debate and genuinely contribute to the thread.

[bickster]

I'm sorry Bickster, it is well known there's a Tory clique on this forum. I have no problem with Tory supporters who offer a constructive view to a debate and genuinely contribute to the thread.

Just as many Labour supporters, why is one a clique and the other not. That is exactly what I was talking about

[tonyh29]

it is well known there's a Tory clique on this forum.

Meh , everyone knows VT is infested with yogurt knitting woollies

[tonyh29]

etc etc etc.

6 down 94 to go :-)

however , there is just one small problem , the telegraph article for example doesn't even mention Balls in it ... taking into account that your claim was that Gove didn't pawn Balls in the commons , linking to a random story about Gove doesn't really support your claim

also

technically speaking you can't really count the Mirror , same grounds that I didn't post the Daily Heil article in support of Gove :winkold:

so i think we need to go back to 100 to go :-)

[avfc89]

I think the last few pages on this thread answers your question Bickster.

[drat01]

however , there is just one small problem , the telegraph article for example doesn't even mention Balls in it ... taking into account that your claim was that Gove didn't pawn Balls in the commons , linking to a random story about Gove doesn't really support your claim

also

ahem!!

The internet is littered with hundreds possibly thousands of articles from more fair minded people that have totally shredded Gove and his actions to date.

Read the posts :-)

[Ads]

I think the last few pages on this thread answers your question Bickster.

They show a humourless response from you and an immediate partisan defence of the Party with an anti-Tory jibe rather than a giggle at the jape. Presumably your quest for serious debate involves flaming the fires of partisan loyalties?

Don’t think I didn’t notice it before your clickety-click ascent up to Mount Olympus to pour scorn on the mortals toiling below. With their fun and their internets. Its just not serious enough!

If you’d have laughed or not commented, then you could have got back on to talking about the coronation of David Miliband before you could say clause IV.

[tonyh29]

they just live in their wierd bubble of ambition and the greasy pole and lose all the connection they once had with "us" out here in real world (assuming they aren't over priveledged millionaires to start with, who only ever connected with other millionaires anyway).

TBF I think Brown cared and was genuine

just out of his depth

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

He does look a bit of a monkey to be fair.

[bickster]

I think the last few pages on this thread answers your question Bickster.

Yep, theres none so blind that will not see

You can't look at this one topic in isolation for evidence. Look at the big picture and the "side takers" are exactly the same, they just support different sides

but anyway going back on topic briefly, which of these candidates is actually left wing? See I remember a time when Diane Abbott was on the right of the Labour Party and now she's portrayed as the maverick left winger with no hope. Thing is I don't think she's changed her politics too much in that time, its the Labour Party thats shifted, possibly permanently, to the right of centre party we by and large now have at government level. To all intents and purposes, they are the Tory Party with red curtains, pandering to business and middle England just like the blue ones. Which of these candidates is going to redress that balance? and do we actually take them at their word or do we just think it'll be the same old lip service until they get into power and then they'll carry on being what they were last time? I know where my money would go at the bookies

[drat01]

:-) @ Ads - and this coming from someone who had previously posted

I have no problem with people holding their views, I just feel it a shame that what was a decent discussion about policy got side tracked by something that isn’t particularly important or interesting in comparison.

:-)