Bolitics The New Condem Government

[NurembergVillan]

 

 

The rise of France's National Front is a greater cause for concern than the rise of UKIP. UKIP are just the nastier strains of the tories branched out. The NF represents something more sinister - a return of a genuinely far-right party in an otherwise moderate country. Although, they are more of a populist party economically these days.

Front Nationale have been 'prominent' for years, but France is not a 'moderate' country, it is a socialist country, and will always be so.

Nationalist parties like FN and BNP appeal to voters who would normally vote for socialist parties, not more moderate right wing parties.

And you base these outrageous statements on which in depth study. Oh , that would be the one carried out by the school of " I think it, so it must be true".

 

 

In what way are these statements outrageous?  They appear to have touched a nerve with you.

 

Under Papa Le Pen, the FN were openly anti-Semitic - he himself was a Holocaust denier, and another prominent party members was known to be a fan of Ahmedinejad.  Another gave a Nazi salute at a party rally and one more, known as one of the party's key intellectuals is described as a prominent anti-Semite.

 

Petit Le Pen has moved to distance herself from anti-Semitism, even attempting to woo the Jewish vote.  That has largely been created against a backdrop of growing distrust and dislike of the North African / Muslim community.  At the present moment it seems an easier way to win elections, turning everyone against Muslims, than to turn everyone against Jews.  The Jews are yesterday's villains.

 

Any in-depth studies you'd like to reference in order to counter that?

[blandy]

Which in depth studies say France is not a moderate country, or that it is and always will be socialist, though? I think that was the point being raised

[blandy]

...the only party offering me a pay rise that I deserve are the Green Party - now I'll vote for that.

the greens are the only ones who haven't realised you spend all day posting in here That's what they're called the greens

[Kingfisher]

...the only party offering me a pay rise that I deserve are the Green Party - now I'll vote for that.

the greens are the only ones who haven't realised you spend all day posting in here That's what they're called the greens

You may need to edit that into a coherent sentence. I know it's a bank holiday but it's a bit early in the morning to be drinking

[Mantis]

 

 

 

The rise of France's National Front is a greater cause for concern than the rise of UKIP. UKIP are just the nastier strains of the tories branched out. The NF represents something more sinister - a return of a genuinely far-right party in an otherwise moderate country. Although, they are more of a populist party economically these days.

Front Nationale have been 'prominent' for years, but France is not a 'moderate' country, it is a socialist country, and will always be so.

Nationalist parties like FN and BNP appeal to voters who would normally vote for socialist parties, not more moderate right wing parties.

And you base these outrageous statements on which in depth study. Oh , that would be the one carried out by the school of " I think it, so it must be true".

 

 

In what way are these statements outrageous?  They appear to have touched a nerve with you.

 

Under Papa Le Pen, the FN were openly anti-Semitic - he himself was a Holocaust denier, and another prominent party members was known to be a fan of Ahmedinejad.  Another gave a Nazi salute at a party rally and one more, known as one of the party's key intellectuals is described as a prominent anti-Semite.

 

Petit Le Pen has moved to distance herself from anti-Semitism, even attempting to woo the Jewish vote.  That has largely been created against a backdrop of growing distrust and dislike of the North African / Muslim community.  At the present moment it seems an easier way to win elections, turning everyone against Muslims, than to turn everyone against Jews.  The Jews are yesterday's villains.

 

Any in-depth studies you'd like to reference in order to counter that?

 

Maybe he was referring to the claim that parties like the BNP and FN normally appeal to voters who people who for socialists rather than the centre-right? Even then though I don't think there's anything wrong with that claim. I don't know about FN but it's hardly a secret that the BNP have done well in Labour areas in the past.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Mantis

[NurembergVillan]

Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick then.  Perhaps we need a bit more clarity on the intentions of the post.

[thetrees]

Which in depth studies say France is not a moderate country, or that it is and always will be socialist, though? I think that was the point being raised

Which in depth studies say that UKIP, a party on an anti-EU ticket, with vocal concerns about intra-EU cross border free movement of population, are collectively racist?

[thetrees]

The rise of France's National Front is a greater cause for concern than the rise of UKIP. UKIP are just the nastier strains of the tories branched out. The NF represents something more sinister - a return of a genuinely far-right party in an otherwise moderate country. Although, they are more of a populist party economically these days.

Front Nationale have been 'prominent' for years, but France is not a 'moderate' country, it is a socialist country, and will always be so.

Nationalist parties like FN and BNP appeal to voters who would normally vote for socialist parties, not more moderate right wing parties.

And you base these outrageous statements on which in depth study. Oh , that would be the one carried out by the school of " I think it, so it must be true".

 

In what way are these statements outrageous?  They appear to have touched a nerve with you.

 

Under Papa Le Pen, the FN were openly anti-Semitic - he himself was a Holocaust denier, and another prominent party members was known to be a fan of Ahmedinejad.  Another gave a Nazi salute at a party rally and one more, known as one of the party's key intellectuals is described as a prominent anti-Semite.

 

Petit Le Pen has moved to distance herself from anti-Semitism, even attempting to woo the Jewish vote.  That has largely been created against a backdrop of growing distrust and dislike of the North African / Muslim community.  At the present moment it seems an easier way to win elections, turning everyone against Muslims, than to turn everyone against Jews.  The Jews are yesterday's villains.

 

Any in-depth studies you'd like to reference in order to counter that?

Maybe he was referring to the claim that parties like the BNP and FN normally appeal to voters who people who for socialists rather than the centre-right? Even then though I don't think there's anything wrong with that claim. I don't know about FN but it's hardly a secret that the BNP have done well in Labour areas in the past.

I was, and it was in response to the 'worried' post regarding the rise of FN, in a country where I believe that the far right is even less likely to get a foothold than ours, so basically no chance.

But it is always 'outrageous' to claim that the far right appeal to those who are, or who feel, less fortunate in society, and who would normally vote for left wing parties, because it doesn't quite fit.

Birmingham's BNP councillor wasn't elected in Solihull or Four Oaks, he/she was elected in Kingstanding.(not very 'in depth' I know, but a fact nonetheless)

Perhaps when Labour are next in they can commission one of their expensive in depth studies, the results of which they can use to educate people in target areas about the way that they should vote.

[snowychap]

Which in depth studies say France is not a moderate country, or that it is and always will be socialist, though? I think that was the point being raised

I think the nerve also touched was the transposing of 'socialist' and 'not moderate'.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Indeed. Those darn French, with their healthcare and low tuition fees! Crazy socialists!

[thetrees]

Indeed. Those darn French, with their healthcare and low tuition fees! Crazy socialists!

You forgot their ridiculous and outrageous employment laws.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I'll leave it to the experts to debate French employment laws, as much fun as that sounds

[MakemineVanilla]

Beyond 'get out of Europe', beyond 'immigration control', what are UKIP's policies? On available evidence, more of the same. It's basically the euro sceptic wing of the Tory party.

Different shyster, same old shit with a more noticeable undercurrent of racism and a bit more homophobia thrown in (that's where the far right parallels are drawn).

Will UKIP offer a living wage? No. So whilst they're twitting about, arguing about some or other shit, the only party offering me a pay rise that I deserve are the Green Party - now I'll vote for that.

 

I honestly believe that self-interest is the only legitimate reason to vote for any party.

[Kingfisher]

Beyond 'get out of Europe', beyond 'immigration control', what are UKIP's policies? On available evidence, more of the same. It's basically the euro sceptic wing of the Tory party.

Different shyster, same old shit with a more noticeable undercurrent of racism and a bit more homophobia thrown in (that's where the far right parallels are drawn).

Will UKIP offer a living wage? No. So whilst they're twitting about, arguing about some or other shit, the only party offering me a pay rise that I deserve are the Green Party - now I'll vote for that.

I honestly believe that self-interest is the only legitimate reason to vote for any party.

I don't. But a hell of a lot of people do. Unfortunately the Green Party need to start promoting policies such as the living wage more aggressively towards that mentality.

[thetrees]

Beyond 'get out of Europe', beyond 'immigration control', what are UKIP's policies? On available evidence, more of the same. It's basically the euro sceptic wing of the Tory party.

Different shyster, same old shit with a more noticeable undercurrent of racism and a bit more homophobia thrown in (that's where the far right parallels are drawn).

Will UKIP offer a living wage? No. So whilst they're twitting about, arguing about some or other shit, the only party offering me a pay rise that I deserve are the Green Party - now I'll vote for that.

I honestly believe that self-interest is the only legitimate reason to vote for any party.

I don't. But a hell of a lot of people do. Unfortunately the Green Party need to start promoting policies such as the living wage more aggressively towards that mentality.

Even voting to feel better about yourself can be classed as self interest.

[peterms]

Beyond 'get out of Europe', beyond 'immigration control', what are UKIP's policies? On available evidence, more of the same. It's basically the euro sceptic wing of the Tory party.

Different shyster, same old shit with a more noticeable undercurrent of racism and a bit more homophobia thrown in (that's where the far right parallels are drawn).

Will UKIP offer a living wage? No. So whilst they're twitting about, arguing about some or other shit, the only party offering me a pay rise that I deserve are the Green Party - now I'll vote for that.

 

Let's look at their approach to Europe for a moment.  I give you David Coburn, a man so prominent in Ukip that he was chosen as their lead candidate for the whole of Scotland (and tragicomically, elected).

 

 

Mr Coburn said his aim as an MEP was to keep "Scottish business and Scottish people aware of some of the crazy things going on in Europe that will affect their businesses and their jobs".

 

When challenged by presenter Gary Robertson to name some specific examples, Mr Coburn replied: "Off the top of my head I can't think but there's so many of them".

 

Clearly the oppressive yoke of EU regulation is a matter Mr C has thought long and hard about.  Not surprising, as it's his party's flagship policy.  We are lucky to have a man of his sharp intellect and cogent analysis representing us.

 

Let's hope he can continue to do so.  He's been reported to the police for giving a false address on his nomination form, which is both an imprisonable offence, and something which could invalidate the election.  It is suggested that he may have been confused about whether he lives in Edinburgh or Kensington, something which I'm sure could confuse any of us.  Let's see if there's any truth in it.

[blandy]

Maybe he was referring to the claim that parties like the BNP and FN normally appeal to voters who people who for socialists rather than the centre-right? Even then though I don't think there's anything wrong with that claim. I don't know about FN but it's hardly a secret that the BNP have done well in Labour areas in the past.

 

 

There's truth in that, Mantis, for sure. though whether the people voting for the BNP were former labour or former tories or someone else, we don't really know. Thereused to be plenty of places where there wasn't much money, but there were blue collar tories. The working class tory has sort of largely disappeared, really. Maybe they've found a home with UPIKs or others, I dunno. Just saying that doing well up north doesn't mean someone's attracting a lot of Labour votes .It's more complex, I think.

[villaajax]

Beyond 'get out of Europe', beyond 'immigration control', what are UKIP's policies? On available evidence, more of the same. It's basically the euro sceptic wing of the Tory party.

Different shyster, same old shit with a more noticeable undercurrent of racism and a bit more homophobia thrown in (that's where the far right parallels are drawn).

Will UKIP offer a living wage? No. So whilst they're twitting about, arguing about some or other shit, the only party offering me a pay rise that I deserve are the Green Party - now I'll vote for that.

 

In what way are they offering a pay rise?

[blandy]

 

Which in depth studies say France is not a moderate country, or that it is and always will be socialist, though? I think that was the point being raised

Which in depth studies say that UKIP, a party on an anti-EU ticket, with vocal concerns about intra-EU cross border free movement of population, are collectively racist?

 

I haven't claimed that. I was refuting your claim that studies show what you said about France, Lawrence.

I think UKIP has definitely attracted a lot of people who hold views that in this day and age are considered racist. I also think that the kind of threshold of "acceptability"as to what is/isn't racist has moved over the years. Overt racism is much less apparent than it used to be, thankfully. So people who are actually racist,but don't yell it from the rooftops, and people who are opposed to the level of immigration here often say very similar things. It's unsurprising, but a shame that the two things get mixed up.

There are more stories in the media and internets about UPIKs who been found out being racists, though whether that's because they have a greater percentage of racists than any other group is open to debate. They are poisoned in many people's eyes by their racists, though, They need to clean 'em out.

[Kingfisher]

The implementation of a minimum wage that's a living wage. They estimate it at £8.10 I think. That would effectively be a pay rise for a hell of a lot of people.