Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #6 - Leaders Debate 3

[avfc89]

Oh, we will get change, but it won't be positive change for most of us.

[snowychap]

Going to be some serious stuff in tomorrow's newspapers I guess.

Some polls taken in marginal seats?

BTW, where are your odds from? Betfair?

[Malachite]

I still can't quite over how the Tories have managed to make people believe they want change.

Yes, they wan't change, but not progressive change. Does anyone know what conservative means anymore?

I agree, it's mind blowing to think people actually believe they have changed, they haven't. You just need to get past their sweet beguiling buzz words and speeches to find the Thatcher blue print lurking underneath with all its misery for the majority of this Country, except for the small few of course.

I am voting Labour because they have a genuine plan for the future. Conservatives are a empty hub of promise and change, their true agenda is filtered through enticing speeches and tough talking promises which won't materialise.

But voting for "Dave" is voting for change.

After 31 years on uninterrupted rule by rupert, a tory victory will usher in an era of control for James

The new leader and his lovely assistant "Dave"

I reckon Cameron has got his hand on the other fellas rinky dink, they look way to cheeky to me.

[Gringo]

Yes - they seem to have settled a bit more, tories out to 10/11 vs 11/10.

[Malachite]

Still think they need to come clean on these cuts the IMF and the governor of the bank of England reckon will be the most severe in Europe, looking at the rest of Europe taking to the street in protest of austere cuts is one thing, when the UK takes to the streets its war.

An interesting but doomladen point of view given by a notary German economist (who's name i can't remember and couldn't say it if i did) on TV last night, saying that Capitalism and the west is going through the same process of meltdown that Communism suffered in eastern Europe years ago, basically its coming to a dead stop. He said.

"Ze problem is ze old communist state embraced capitalism and the Vest and de preceding transferal of da system went unt relatively simples, however vot will we do now mon heir".

Thats a kind of rough translation of what he was trying to say.

[PauloBarnesi]

"I have got a great deal of respect for what he has done and I hope that he has some respect for me."

The editors in Britain for instance have turned very much against Gordon Brown, who is a friend of mine. I regret it … I think they're probably right that he has been a disappointment as a prime minister. He has been an unlucky man. But you know the end of 13 years of one-party rule, the idea of change is probably good."

Murdoch senior wasn’t too happy when they dumped Gordon.

[bickster]

Here's something I didn't know until yesterday. If its a hung parliament it doesn't matter who gets the most seats, Gordon Brown and Labour as the current incumbents get first dibs on trying to cobble together a coalition

[Awol]

"I have got a great deal of respect for what he has done and I hope that he has some respect for me."

The editors in Britain for instance have turned very much against Gordon Brown, who is a friend of mine. I regret it … I think they're probably right that he has been a disappointment as a prime minister. He has been an unlucky man. But you know the end of 13 years of one-party rule, the idea of change is probably good."

Murdoch senior wasn’t too happy when they dumped Gordon.

Blimey, you're unrinating on all kinds of chips with factual statements like that. Labour tainted by brand Murdoch? How very dare you...

[Gringo]

Murdoch senior wasn’t too happy when they dumped Gordon.

Rupert wants to be on the winning side. His comments are probably the same kind of regrets doug used to utter every few years when changing horses.

[Gringo]

Here's something I didn't know until yesterday. If its a hung parliament it doesn't matter who gets the most seats, Gordon Brown and Labour as the current incumbents get first dibs on trying to cobble together a coalition

Brown is still PM until he goes off to queenie to resign, so he does have a little advantage, but only a little one.

[Awol]

Here's something I didn't know until yesterday. If its a hung parliament it doesn't matter who gets the most seats, Gordon Brown and Labour as the current incumbents get first dibs on trying to cobble together a coalition

Yep, with Clegg as the king maker of a lib/lab coalition. God save us.

[chrisp65]

I'd like to think that in the event of a hung parliament Labour would have the good sense to tell Gordon to take a break, bugger off to Scotland to get his head together for a month and leave any negotiations to people more able to relate to other people. I used to think his lack of pr nouse was endearing but I seriously think he could start an arguement in a phonebox. Doubtlessly clever and good at remembering stats, but hardly a people person.

Here's something I didn't know until lunchtime. In the crisis that was 1974 Labour had to hand over £500million to the banks and building societies to keep them lending to the public as the economy had gone into meltdown.

£500 million 36 years ago was a decent sum of money.

[Awol]

Here's something else to ponder Chrisp65, Labour are currently borrowing £500,000,000 per day..

[drat01]

All these stories about debt have to be taken into consideration

Other selected Levels of Public Debt as a % of GDP from 2009 est

1 Zimbabwe 304.30 %

2 Japan 192.10

3 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185.00

4 Lebanon 160.10

5 Jamaica 131.70

6 Singapore 117.60

7 Italy 115.20

8 Greece 108.10

9 Sudan 104.50

10 Iceland 100.60

11 Belgium 99.00

12 Nicaragua 87.00

13 Israel 83.90

14 Sri Lanka 82.90

15 Egypt 79.80

16 France 79.70

17 Germany 77.20

18 Portugal 75.20

19 Hungary 72.40

20 Canada 72.30

21 Jordan 69.90

22 United Kingdom 68.50

23 Austria 68.20

24 Ghana 67.50

25 Malta 66.20

26 Cote d’Ivoire 63.80

27 Ireland 63.70

28 Netherlands 62.30

29 Philippines 62.30

30 Norway 60.20

31 India 60.10

32 Spain 59.50

33 Uruguay 58.70

34 Mauritius 58.30

35 Malawi 58.00

36 Bhutan 57.80

37 El Salvador 55.40

38 Albania 54.90

39 Kenya 54.10

40 Morocco 54.10

41 Tunisia 53.80

42 World 53.60

43 Cyprus 52.40

44 Vietnam 52.30

45 Panama 49.50

46 Thailand 49.40

47 Costa Rica 49.30

48 Argentina 49.10

49 Turkey 48.50

50 Malaysia 47.80

51 Croatia 47.70

52 Poland 47.50

53 United Arab Emirates 47.20

54 Brazil 46.80

55 Finland 46.60

56 Aruba 46.30

57 Colombia 46.10

58 Pakistan 45.30

59 Bolivia 44.00

60 Seychelles 43.90

61 Switzerland 43.50

62 Sweden 43.20

63 Bosnia and Herzegovina 43.00

64 Mexico 42.60

65 Dominican Republic 41.50

66 United States 39.70

67 Yemen 39.60

68 Bangladesh 38.20

69 Denmark 38.10

70 Montenegro 38.00

71 Serbia 37.00

72 South Africa 35.70

73 Cuba 34.80

74 Gabon 34.70

75 Slovakia 34.60

76 Taiwan 34.60

77 Papua New Guinea 33.70

78 Czech Republic 32.80

79 Guatemala 32.70

80 Latvia 32.50

81 Ecuador 32.30

82 Syria 32.30

83 Ethiopia 31.70

84 Zambia 31.50

85 Slovenia 31.40

86 Lithuania 31.30

87 Moldova 31.30

88 Bahrain 30.10

89 Indonesia 29.80

90 New Zealand 29.30

91 Korea, South 28.00

92 Trinidad and Tobago 26.70

93 Mozambique 26.10

94 Peru 26.10

95 Tanzania 24.80

96 Macedonia 24.50

97 Honduras 24.30

98 Senegal 24.00

99 Paraguay 22.10

100 Bulgaria 21.40

101 Ukraine 20.70

102 Saudi Arabia 20.30

103 Romania 20.00

104 Iran 19.40

105 Venezuela 19.40

106 Uganda 19.30

107 Namibia 19.10

108 Australia 18.60

109 China 18.20

110 Hong Kong 18.10

111 Botswana 17.90

112 Nigeria 17.80

113 Angola 16.80

114 Gibraltar 15.70

115 Luxembourg 14.50

116 Cameroon 14.30

117 Kazakhstan 14.00

118 Uzbekistan 11.70

119 Algeria 10.70

120 Chile 9.00

121 Kuwait 8.20

122 Estonia 7.50

123 Qatar 7.10

124 Russia 6.90

125 Libya 6.50

126 Wallis and Futuna 5.60

127 Azerbaijan 4.60

128 Oman 2.80

129 Equatorial Guinea 1.10

[chrisp65]

Here's something else to ponder Chrisp65, Labour are currently borrowing £500,000,000 per day..

the size of the numbers is not something we are used to dealing with, I think if we thought about it for too long there wouldn't be enough Andrex in the country, truly mind numbing numbers

whoever gets in, you'd better strap yourself down because this is gonna be one hell of a ride

[Gringo]

All these stories about debt have to be taken into consideration

Unfortunately these numbers don't include either personal debt - which is way higher in the UK than any of the other EU nations, nor PFI - which is virtually zero in the other nations - and the repayments for which hamstring any future govts attempts to pay down debt as they are already committed to paying the private contractors well over the odds for the services provided.

In all of its assessments of debt, the UK topped most of the tables. In 2008, it says the UK’s overall debt to GDP ratio was 469 per cent.

UK financial sector debt grew by 77 per cent between 2000 and 2008, to almost 200 per cent of GDP. This was magnified in the years leading up to the crash as financials debts grew by more than a quarter from 2006.

The report also says that UK household debt relative to GDP grew by 102 per cent in eight years. It says household debt as a debt to income ratio in UK in 2008 was 160 per cent, growing 52 per cent in eight years.

[drat01]

Did you mention the P word there Gringo?

Not a lot been said to date - please feel free to correct - about the levels of privatisation each of the parties would do? Is that detailed anywhere? We all know about how much that was flavour of the month the last time the Tory party were in power and you see plenty of examples in Tory councils especially where key services are privatised. will this be a "way" to cut the perceived costs?

[Gringo]

Some of those old labour types seem to think that blue labour have been quite keen on privatisation as well.

Labour Union Digest"]"I have to say to you this - that if you judge a government by how it behaves as an employer, this is the worst Government in the history of this country. I tell you why. Not because I have any illusions that David Cameron is going to be better - he's going to be dreadful - but the facts speak for themselves. In the Civil Service, the people I'm representing, in four years, the last four years of New Labour, we've lost 100,000 jobs, 2,000 offices have closed. More privatisation of our work than under the governments of Margaret Thatcher and John Major combined."

[drat01]

That was not the question Gringo - what have each of the parties said in terms of privatisation of various elements - surely there must be some "headline" ones?

[Gringo]

Who's promsing privatisation? Well let's go digging - starting with the Royal Mail

Grauniad"]All of the major parties seem to be in agreement with this, the only difference being the degree. Ken Clark has already stated that the Conservatives would privatise the Royal Mail outright, while the Vince Cable for the Liberals favours a form of part-privatisation.

Lord Mandelson's plans for the partial sell-off of the Royal Mail were shelved last year, according to him because of a lack of credible bidders, although the possibility of a backbench revolt might also have helped to focus his attention. The plans are still active, however, and capable of immediate implementation. It will be interesting to see what makes its way into the manifesto.

So on that count it would seem all of the above