Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #6 - Leaders Debate 3

[markavfc40]

Brown worst PM says Labour candidate

On the BBC Ian

Wheres the story on the Tory who said they could cure gays? Was the most tweeted story on twitter, yet not reported on any of the main news outlets?

Conveniently hidden - despite it being a very interesting story to a lot of people

Following on from Graylings attacks on homosexuals the so called tolerant party are seemingly led by a hypocrite in Cameron. Philippa Stroud ran prayer sessions to 'cure' gay people - "A high-flying prospective Conservative MP, credited with shaping many of the party's social policies, founded a church that tried to "cure" homosexuals by driving out their "demons" through prayer."

Absolutely disgusting that this woman is allowed anywhere near a political party let alone be a chief advisor to Cameron.

The old Tory traits are there shining through but conveniently the media are playing to a different tune paid for by certain people.

Bit of a disgrace that the story isn't being widely reported. If that was a labour candidate sky would have been all over it like a rash.

I'm with Ian that the old Tory traits are still very much active.

[drat01]

Hauge defends anti gay comments

and despite Hague's total avoidance of answering the point and squirming, Stroud on her own web site says

"Philippa’s Christian faith has a big influence on her work and home life. "

She has not denounced these views at all - How come when the Tory PPC was sacked recently it was major publicity - could it be that he was standing in a non-winnable seat?

Grayling, Stroud, Lardner, Lewis - it seems that Tory party is riddled with homophobia

[PauloBarnesi]

Brown worst PM says Labour candidate

On the BBC Ian

Wheres the story on the Tory who said they could cure gays? Was the most tweeted story on twitter, yet not reported on any of the main news outlets?

Conveniently hidden - despite it being a very interesting story to a lot of people

Following on from Graylings attacks on homosexuals the so called tolerant party are seemingly led by a hypocrite in Cameron. Philippa Stroud ran prayer sessions to 'cure' gay people - "A high-flying prospective Conservative MP, credited with shaping many of the party's social policies, founded a church that tried to "cure" homosexuals by driving out their "demons" through prayer."

Absolutely disgusting that this woman is allowed anywhere near a political party let alone be a chief advisor to Cameron.

The old Tory traits are there shining through but conveniently the media are playing to a different tune paid for by certain people.

The article seems to feel aggrieved that this isn’t as big as the Brown as bigot. She isn’t the leader of the party, so people are less interested seems to be the conclusion I would make. Its like lots of these stories about nutters and idiots in the parties; unless its the big cheeses, the stories appear and then disappear. This story ran, like the story about the Tory and B&Bs and eventually die out. I am not sure that millions and millions of tweets makes a news story ‘vital’, unless people really think that Ashton Kucher’s thoughts are important, or Stephen Fry has discovered a new Apple app.

I am still trying to find out where it say that she is the [surely as chief its a singular?] chief advisor to Cameron? Chief advisor on what? She seems to have set up a think tank that is influential to Cameron on the family, but is not the chief advisor.

[drat01]

Deflection on your part Paul trying to link Brown and the bigot story. !!

She may not be the leader of the party but she still holds a prominent role that influences policy. I am 110% certain that you would have been on here within seconds if this had been a Lab story.

The facts are that the Tory party continues to show that it has many members who share homophobic ideas. Even Hague struggles to defend the allegiances he is trying to build with the East Europeans who's record on this matter belongs in the dark ages

From her web site - "She is the Director of the Centre for Social Justice" - turns out she underplays that because she is in fact the Executive Director

Who are these people? - "The Centre for Social Justice is a centre-right British political thinktank set up by Iain Duncan Smith"

"The CSJ hosted the Secretariat of the Social Justice Policy Group, which was commissioned by Conservative Party leader David Cameron in January 2006 to conduct research and formulate policy on Britain's social problems, including addiction, debt, economic dependency, educational failure, and family breakdown"

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I couldn't find anything, so what are the parties stances on euthanasia? I could probably guess them but are any of them considering legalising it, so we don't have sick people flocking off to Switzerland?

[snowychap]

Big Society

He he he.

[PauloBarnesi]

Deflection on your part Paul trying to link Brown and the bigot story. !!

She may not be the leader of the party but she still holds a prominent role that influences policy. I am 110% certain that you would have been on here within seconds if this had been a Lab story.

The facts are that the Tory party continues to show that it has many members who share homophobic ideas. Even Hague struggles to defend the allegiances he is trying to build with the East Europeans who's record on this matter belongs in the dark ages

From her web site - "She is the Director of the Centre for Social Justice" - turns out she underplays that because she is in fact the Executive Director

Who are these people? - "The Centre for Social Justice is a centre-right British political thinktank set up by Iain Duncan Smith"

"The CSJ hosted the Secretariat of the Social Justice Policy Group, which was commissioned by Conservative Party leader David Cameron in January 2006 to conduct research and formulate policy on Britain's social problems, including addiction, debt, economic dependency, educational failure, and family breakdown"

Ian I read the Guardian article and the tweets; people raised the point that it hadn’t been as much covered as the bigot story

You linked to the story and then didn’t see what the tweet said???

The story was raised. But like alot of stories it dies down; like the Labour this morning. You did say she was a chief advisor, which she isn’t from anything I can find. I apologise if she was, but I can’t find a single piece of evidence that she is. Just because media report she’s a ‘chief advisor’, and then when you read them, it doesn’t say that. She might be hugely influential to Cameron, she might not be.

Of course the Tory party has homophobes. I suspect all the major parties do; just as they have bigots and idiots on all kinds of things.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Sorta sums up what I've felt about the leaders. It's worrying I almost like Gordon Brown.

He comes across like a politician should, it's not about the flash and the swagger, it's not about making angry workers swooning over your rhetoric or leaving the young women lamenting your absence, it's about policy and hard work.

When I look at Brown I see a man comfortable in doing the job he's meant to do, when I see Cameron I see Tony Blair. When I see Clegg I laugh a little as he seems like a mix between the two, only when it comes to being PM I honestly can't see him as that man.

Out of the three Brown looks like a PM, the other two look like flashy pretenders hoping that their Xfactor politics works.

It's unfortunate really, I'd rather have Brown in PM than the other two, but then that's like saying I'd rather be punched in the face than kicked in the balls.

[Gringo]

Brillian by sky news

Gordon's visiting one place,. Tony another.

On the left of the screen, the have gordo speaking to the crown, on the right, muted cover of tony going round some factory. Gordo deliver's his punchline on the left, and on the right we have managers from the factory laughing (to a blair joke presumably) and then en masse. turning their backs and walking away.

Absolutely brilliant directors cut.

[Jon]

Sorta sums up what I've felt about the leaders. It's worrying I almost like Gordon Brown.

He comes across like a politician should.

Really? :shock:

Awkward with the general public (who as PM he represents in their entirity), fake and awkward plastic forced smile, belittling and abusive "in private" of the people who vote for him.

If that is how politicians "should" come across, I must have been living in a parallel universe for the last 36 years.

He seems to treat his public with contempt. Whether that is a genuine portrayal or not, the others don't do that. Clegg seems genuinely interested in the public he meets.

I think many a leader would struggle to get elected when they seem to dislike the public at large, or at least dislike interacting with them in any way.

Image does matter, as does substance.

Brown's image is simpy woeful, as Brooker acknowledges. It'll cost him.

[Reality]

LMAO @ The DUP PEB. Jesus I have never seen such contrived bollocks in all me days. Camera cuts to Peter Robinson delivering a speech to 10 people in one row...he talks about Northern Ireland moving forward...camera then cuts to some young woman under 25..with a quite clearly hairy upper lip with tears streaming down her face.

:lol:

[OutByEaster?]

Sorta sums up what I've felt about the leaders. It's worrying I almost like Gordon Brown.

He comes across like a politician should.

Really? :shock:

Awkward with the general public (who as PM he represents in their entirity), fake and awkward plastic forced smile, belittling and abusive "in private" of the people who vote for him.

If that is how politicians "should" come across, I must have been living in a parallel universe for the last 36 years.

He seems to treat his public with contempt. Whether that is a genuine portrayal or not, the others don't do that. Clegg seems genuinely interested in the public he meets.

I think many a leader would struggle to get elected when they seem to dislike the public at large, or at least dislike interacting with them in any way.

Image does matter, as does substance.

Brown's image is simpy woeful, as Brooker acknowledges. It'll cost him.

Oddly enough, that's my favourite thing about Brown, it's like they didn't manage to finish the surgery and he's still got some humanity left in him.

Clegg and Cameron are Blair clones, they're the epitome of a modern party leader. They always seem a little bit identikit to me and I get the feeling there's a spin doctor somewhere churning them out.

[Chindie]

I agree somewhat with OBE. I actually like the fact he clearly isn't much of a people person, and doesn't pander terribly to image.

I don't really care if he likes meeting people in a supermarket and comes off well out of it, or even if he particularly likes the public. I don't care if he's rubbish at smiling.

I care that the blokes policies are good for us and whether he's good at leading people. I ultimately care that he's a good politician, not that his image or personality win awards.

And Brown's the only one where you can say, he's so woefully inept at the pandering to something he's clearly not that theres still something genuinely human about him.

I read the Stephen Fry thing Drat linked to (good read), it had a link to a speech he did yesterday apparently at Citizens UK. It's first time I've seen Brown genuinely empassioned. In fact I think it's the first time I can say I've seen anything genuinely passionate from any of the candidates.

[PauloBarnesi]

I agree somewhat with OBE. I actually like the fact he clearly isn't much of a people person, and doesn't pander terribly to image.

I don't really care if he likes meeting people in a supermarket and comes off well out of it, or even if he particularly likes the public. I don't care if he's rubbish at smiling.

I care that the blokes policies are good for us and whether he's good at leading people. I ultimately care that he's a good politician, not that his image or personality win awards.

And Brown's the only one where you can say, he's so woefully inept at the pandering to something he's clearly not that theres still something genuinely human about him.

I read the Stephen Fry thing Drat linked to (good read), it had a link to a speech he did yesterday apparently at Citizens UK. It's first time I've seen Brown genuinely empassioned. In fact I think it's the first time I can say I've seen anything genuinely passionate from any of the candidates.

Part of being a politician is dealing with people; foreign leaders, etc. It really doesn’t help if our leader doesn’t come across well. Look at Bill Clinton and how good he was with people and how it helped him. Or JFK. We aren’t even talking about policies, we are talking about attracting people and being able to deal with people. Brown fails IMO in this respect and it isn’t helping the UK.

[Jon]

Oddly enough, that's my favourite thing about Brown, it's like they didn't manage to finish the surgery and he's still got some humanity left in him.

Clegg and Cameron are Blair clones, they're the epitome of a modern party leader. They always seem a little bit identikit to me and I get the feeling there's a spin doctor somewhere churning them out.

I agree somewhat with OBE. I actually like the fact he clearly isn't much of a people person, and doesn't pander terribly to image.

I don't really care if he likes meeting people in a supermarket and comes off well out of it, or even if he particularly likes the public. I don't care if he's rubbish at smiling.

I care that the blokes policies are good for us and whether he's good at leading people. I ultimately care that he's a good politician, not that his image or personality win awards.

And Brown's the only one where you can say, he's so woefully inept at the pandering to something he's clearly not that theres still something genuinely human about him.

I read the Stephen Fry thing Drat linked to (good read), it had a link to a speech he did yesterday apparently at Citizens UK. It's first time I've seen Brown genuinely empassioned. In fact I think it's the first time I can say I've seen anything genuinely passionate from any of the candidates.

T'was a great speech that. I think he was happier doing that, much more comfortable.

I undersytand what you are saying lads, and it holds much worth.

It should be about how good he is at being PM (which is still questionable IMO, but there you go), and how good his policies are etc.

It should, but usually isn't.

The need to be presentable, and to come across well, is hugely important to the electorate. Presentation matters. It's shallow, but it counts.

[TheDon]

I agree somewhat with OBE. I actually like the fact he clearly isn't much of a people person, and doesn't pander terribly to image.

I don't really care if he likes meeting people in a supermarket and comes off well out of it, or even if he particularly likes the public. I don't care if he's rubbish at smiling.

I care that the blokes policies are good for us and whether he's good at leading people. I ultimately care that he's a good politician, not that his image or personality win awards.

And Brown's the only one where you can say, he's so woefully inept at the pandering to something he's clearly not that theres still something genuinely human about him.

I read the Stephen Fry thing Drat linked to (good read), it had a link to a speech he did yesterday apparently at Citizens UK. It's first time I've seen Brown genuinely empassioned. In fact I think it's the first time I can say I've seen anything genuinely passionate from any of the candidates.

Part of being a politician is dealing with people; foreign leaders, etc. It really doesn’t help if our leader doesn’t come across well. Look at Bill Clinton and how good he was with people and how it helped him. Or JFK. We aren’t even talking about policies, we are talking about attracting people and being able to deal with people. Brown fails IMO in this respect and it isn’t helping the UK.

He doesn't deal with the public well, you see him speaking politics and he's a completely different person.

[blandy]

Deflection on your part Paul...I am 110% certain that you would have been on here within seconds if this had been a Lab story....

Writing as a moderator, that sort of post is uncalled for, directed against anyone. No-one can be sure what anyone would do in a given hypothetical situation. Additionally it is against the site guidelines to post on poster, not subject. Please could all posters refrain from breaching the guidelines. Thanks

[Chindie]

I agree somewhat with OBE. I actually like the fact he clearly isn't much of a people person, and doesn't pander terribly to image.

I don't really care if he likes meeting people in a supermarket and comes off well out of it, or even if he particularly likes the public. I don't care if he's rubbish at smiling.

I care that the blokes policies are good for us and whether he's good at leading people. I ultimately care that he's a good politician, not that his image or personality win awards.

And Brown's the only one where you can say, he's so woefully inept at the pandering to something he's clearly not that theres still something genuinely human about him.

I read the Stephen Fry thing Drat linked to (good read), it had a link to a speech he did yesterday apparently at Citizens UK. It's first time I've seen Brown genuinely empassioned. In fact I think it's the first time I can say I've seen anything genuinely passionate from any of the candidates.

Part of being a politician is dealing with people; foreign leaders, etc. It really doesn’t help if our leader doesn’t come across well. Look at Bill Clinton and how good he was with people and how it helped him. Or JFK. We aren’t even talking about policies, we are talking about attracting people and being able to deal with people. Brown fails IMO in this respect and it isn’t helping the UK.

With dignitaries and other politicians I think he seems much more comfortable and able. He's good at straight up formal stuff. He can't do the mingle with the public terribly well, and as I said, I don't really care. It won't do him any good with the majority of people, because people seem only to care about the surface. But for me, it doesn't really matter.

He's not terribly good with the public, for certain. I'm just not that sure that matters in his ability to do the job if he can handle genuine politics.

[OutByEaster?]

The need to be presentable, and to come across well, is hugely important to the electorate. Presentation matters. It's shallow, but it counts.

I'd agree, for me the fact that he doesn't look like the others counts in his favour but I'm aware that's equally shallow and doesn't actually demonstrate anything.

I sort of assume that because he's risen to be party leader despite not being a media prop he must be a very talented politician (so good he can overcome this handicap!) but I'm also aware that it's just the other side of the same coin, that I'm still buying image rather than substance.

He's the Kurt Cobain of political leaders.

[drat01]

Deflection on your part Paul...I am 110% certain that you would have been on here within seconds if this had been a Lab story....

Writing as a moderator, that sort of post is uncalled for, directed against anyone. No-one can be sure what anyone would do in a given hypothetical situation. Additionally it is against the site guidelines to post on poster, not subject. Please could all posters refrain from breaching the guidelines. Thanks

Apologies to Paul if that came across wrongly then.