Jez Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Sidwell is leaving, whether Fulham have a manager or not he has held discussions with their board members, the clubs have agreed a fee, it's on the brink - the new manager whomever he may be may well veto the transfer but even then he'll simply go elsewhere. Sidwell will not line up alongside Petrov vs West Ham, IF Milner leaves I have confidence in MoN to find a replacement, just as he found Milner. Simply go elsewhere? Its just that simple is it? Why have we not got Shorey, Beye, Sidwell etc of our wage bill then? Shorey wont go to Forrest because they only want to offer him half of what he is earning at Villa, what would you do? They get given these massive contracts no wonder we cannot get rid. Your right MON did find Milner, was he has good then as he is now? MON finds a replacement and takes a few years before he is any good, then we sell them anyway. In the mean time we are weakened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I think Milner can be replaced, the concern i have is that we've actually shown no ambition as a club to try and make him think again. You don't actually KNOW this though do you? Unless I've missed something entirely none of us know the conversations that have or haven't taken place between the club, MoN and Milner. I find it bizarre that we can hold grudges against the club based on speculative opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Sidwell is leaving, whether Fulham have a manager or not he has held discussions with their board members, the clubs have agreed a fee, it's on the brink - the new manager whomever he may be may well veto the transfer but even then he'll simply go elsewhere. Sidwell will not line up alongside Petrov vs West Ham, IF Milner leaves I have confidence in MoN to find a replacement, just as he found Milner. Simply go elsewhere? Its just that simple is it? Why have we not got Shorey, Beye, Sidwell etc of our wage bill then? Shorey wont go to Forrest because they only want to offer him half of what he is earning at Villa, what would you do? They get given these massive contracts no wonder we cannot get rid. Your right MON did find Milner, was he has good then as he is now? MON finds a replacement and takes a few years before he is any good, then we sell them anyway. In the mean time we are weakened. Jez, you're absolutely full of shit, full of it. "years before he is any good" - what are you talking about, show me a single player O Neill has bought that has taken 'years' to become a good player, just one, any one will do? Then follow that up with showing me a player that 'he just sells anyway'? Again any single one will do? It frightens me that this is your genuine opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 22, 2010 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2010 Your right MON did find Milner, was he has good then as he is now? MON finds a replacement and takes a few years before he is any good, then we sell them anyway.Criticising O'Neill for buying duds is fair enough. But you also seem to be criticising him for buying good players who are then wanted by bottomless Pete up the road. And he didn't take 'a few years' to become good. We had Barry in central midfield for 08/09, Milner's first season. Milner stepped straight in last season and was immediately a revelation. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 You don't actually KNOW this though do you? Unless I've missed something entirely none of us know the conversations that have or haven't taken place between the club, MoN and Milner. I find it bizarre that we can hold grudges against the club based on speculative opinions. Your right i dont. Do you think the club are showing their ambitions, why as Milner not signed a new contract, solely down to money going to City? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 22, 2010 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2010 I don't want to get into a battle with you Trent Likewise and while I argue the toss on events on here with people its never a battle or personal. "I'm not actually convinced O'Neill is responsible for Milner's development to be honest, I think that is down to Milner. All O'Neill is responsible for is giving him a better stage and a chance to play in the middle the rest is down to the player himself who is supposed to be one of the most dedicated players around." I conceed the use of 'all' was poor and on reflection a little dismissive of O'Neill's role. I do though stand behind the belief that the player himself is mostly responsible. We will I guess have to just agree to disagree on that one. It's not down to the likes of myself to 'pigeonhole' you as being anti or pro O Neill, it's each posters own comments that dictate that..... I'm not anti O'Neill you will find me defend him with the same strength of conviction when I think he has done right, I've disagreed with many posters before now just as you are doing so with me. Even when you are saying you aren't trying to pigeonhole opinions you are doing that very thing. Just because someone is critical of O'Neill doesn't make them anit O'Neill and just because someone is supportive of him on something doesn't make them pro O'Neill. I'm neither thing, I'm just a supporter who sometimes agrees with the actions of the manager and sometimes doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I have a feeling that IF Milner were to leave for between 20-25million, then MON will buy a player that non of us thought we would go for. There will be much rejoicing, but then the player will flop and MON will be branded a failure at transfers once more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Sidwell is leaving, whether Fulham have a manager or not he has held discussions with their board members, the clubs have agreed a fee, it's on the brink - the new manager whomever he may be may well veto the transfer but even then he'll simply go elsewhere. Sidwell will not line up alongside Petrov vs West Ham, IF Milner leaves I have confidence in MoN to find a replacement, just as he found Milner. Simply go elsewhere? Its just that simple is it? Why have we not got Shorey, Beye, Sidwell etc of our wage bill then? Shorey wont go to Forrest because they only want to offer him half of what he is earning at Villa, what would you do? They get given these massive contracts no wonder we cannot get rid. Your right MON did find Milner, was he has good then as he is now? MON finds a replacement and takes a few years before he is any good, then we sell them anyway. In the mean time we are weakened. Jez, you're absolutely full of shit, full of it. "years before he is any good" - what are you talking about, show me a single player O Neill has bought that has taken 'years' to become a good player, just one, any one will do? Then follow that up with showing me a player that 'he just sells anyway'? Again any single one will do? It frightens me that this is your genuine opinion. Was Milner as good as when we signed him as he is now? Yes or no. Thats all i'm saying. I apologise for putting years as i dont know the exact days or months and i know how exact you have to be on here. Same level as ability now as when we signed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy_Evergo Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I'd take £15m plus Ireland at this stage now. If the reports that he won't sign a new contract are true then I want him gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCatMe Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 This is becoming beyond tedious!!! So many speculative, often barbed comments about JM, MON, Villa, etc..BUT, who actually KNOWS what has been said, or what level of ambition Villa have? So much sqwarking about not showing signs of ambition, not doing this or that to make JM stay, and yet, you know nothing... As far as i am aware, he's still on holiday, and his agent has said nothing. We KNOW City want him and made a bid but that's all... As for not signing anybody yet to show ambition? So what? You can't simply magic players out of thin air. Of course we can't offer CL football, but neither can City or Liverpool, so obviously, anyone going there is purely after financial gain. Fair enough, but be honest about it, and not waffle on about the magic of Anfield or being part of an exciting project... The fact is, with a fan base of around 40000 or so, you cannot sustain paying out wages such as those paid to JC. The other 'star' names will demand parity and then football spirals out of control ever further. Ity's already teetering on the edge of a financial cataclysm, with only TV money and billionaire owners/banks keeping things afloat thus far. Kindly get real and not expect Villa to drown in a sea of debt to sate your desire for CL football: do it gradually, build and evolve. And besides, buying big name players does not necessarily buy big name success. It's about motivation and teamwork, skill and dedication: look at what Fulham achieved in the Euopa league last season, then look at Liverpool, look at Arsenal. Focus on bringing through the raw talent rather than buying unproven (in the PL) big names. really, almost 4000 posts on a topic that has little in the way of substance and evidence is really beyond me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 22, 2010 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2010 Just because someone is critical of O'Neill doesn't make them anti O'Neill and just because someone is supportive of him on something doesn't make them pro O'Neill.If everyone could take this on board then this place would be a lot more constructive. Preach the word brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchavfc Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Hypothetical question here, concerning Milner or any other player infact who moves to a club with a view of 'winning things'. Is there a certain number of games that need to be played in the competition by a player to warrent a medal if that team wins the league, (or is it a situation that anyone and everyone collects one) and if its the situation where all 'squad' members collect a medal even if they haven't played then surely Milner (or whoever) for their own sanity must think about moving to a club that rotates players or has a big squad and could not achieve the number of games for a medal or even just collects one for sitting in the stands, are players that shallow cause if they are then they are just in football for the money no matter what they proclaim. (sorry may of rambled a bit but hope you get the jist!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 22, 2010 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2010 10 games is the minimum for a Premier League medal but doesn't guarentee you one as a winning club only get 21 medals. So depending on the size of a squad you could play in 10 games win the league and not get a medal. By the same token if there are medals left over because 21 players haven't made 10 appearances or more then its up to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaninoz Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I think Milner can be replaced, the concern i have is that we've actually shown no ambition as a club to try and make him think again. You don't actually KNOW this though do you? Unless I've missed something entirely none of us know the conversations that have or haven't taken place between the club, MoN and Milner. I find it bizarre that we can hold grudges against the club based on speculative opinions. Totally agree with you mate, no one has any idea what has gone on between him and the club or what his thoughts are and yet he is getting called un-loyal by some and rubbish by others that were calling him brilliant only a few months ago! He has been at the world cup for a month, concentrating on England (Shame most of the squad weren't!) then he is having a couple of weeks holiday away from all of it after a bumper season, surely he deserves that??? He has said nothing either for or against staying, yet he is getting judged by what the press says, surely people can see this??? And how does anyone know that we haven't tried to sign big names?? does someone have inside information that i haven't heard? Maybe we were in for Cole, but he chose Liverpool? simple thing is no one knows who we are in for and what has happened with Milner and the club, so surely we can give them a break until we see who signs and how the season goes? Its the same record every season...a summer of whinging about the transfer activity, booing after the 1st game of the season, realisation that the donkey's he's bought aren't actually that bad (Dunne springs to mind) fighting for 4th until the final weeks, Improving on the season before (Again) and then back to the summer again, and let the whinging begin!! I guess some people are just born to moan, it's in there nature, maybe they should walk around with a smile every now and again and try and think positive for once..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I guess some people are just born to moan, it's in there nature, maybe they should walk around with a smile every now and again and try and think positive for once..... Or just have a different opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchavfc Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I was under that impression, but when you look at clubs, like Man City, and who they are buying and god forbid they do win the league then how on earth are they going to accomodate players like Barry, Bellermy possible Milner. Not our problem I know, but if Milner does go to Man City then it will only be for one reason, money, Mancini has already said he will rotate and they ain't going to win everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 You don't actually KNOW this though do you? Unless I've missed something entirely none of us know the conversations that have or haven't taken place between the club, MoN and Milner. I find it bizarre that we can hold grudges against the club based on speculative opinions. Your right i dont. Do you think the club are showing their ambitions, why as Milner not signed a new contract, solely down to money going to City? This one wasn't actually aimed at you Jez but irregardless, I think that it's very hard for me to comment on what the club is or isn't doing because I simply don't know. We are a club that tends to keep its cards close to its chest in all areas. My understanding is that Milner is still away on holiday? If so, that would go some serious distance to explaining why we haven't heard anything from the club or from him. Now if you want my opinion on the matter (which is wholly different to the truth I'm sure), I believe that the club would desperately wish to keep hold of him however, MoN is wise enough to know that it's a difficult exercise to keep a player that wants to leave. I believe that they've most likely left it in Milners hands as to what he wants to do which I'm sure he's given plenty of thought whilst away on his jollies, if Milner arrives back and quite clearly states that he wants to leave then I think the club will look to do business but only if Citeh match the valuation (much like with the Barry/Liverpool saga). For me all of that seems reasonable and if it were to be true then I would bear no ill feelings toward the club and/or MoN. My anger would be aimed at Milner, though in truth even then I wouldn't be particularly peeved as I'm afraid losing players in this fashion to Citeh may well become a rather regular occurrence until at least they reach the level with which they're aiming for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 22, 2010 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2010 I guess some people are just born to moan, it's in there nature, maybe they should walk around with a smile every now and again and try and think positive for once..... Or just have a different opinion?I call bullshit. You putting forward suggestions that Sidwell would be Milner's replacement as if we wouldn't go into the market to replace him is nothing but fishing for an argument. And if it is actually your opinion that Sidwell would be his replacement - after all, you say you have a different opinion - then the rules of the site prevent me from saying what you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJRM050389 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 He wants to leave. SSN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davies4England Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 O'Neill has told SSN, that Milner wants out, not that we didn't know that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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