TrentVilla Posted June 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2012 If you think I patronised you it was becasue you agreed with Trent that it was laughable. So because he agrees with me that your statement was laughable then it is okay for you to assume neither of us watch football beyond these shores? It's harldy laughable given how well he's played at International level. When he was named player of the tournament at the Gold Cup, that was him performing at the level being discussed. I'm sorry but it is laughable especially when you use performances in a competition such as the Gold Cup as your justification. I'm not belittling the competition in anyway but I would hardly call it the highest standard of club football it is not of the same standard as the Champions League is it? I would also add that you seem to only be talking about his performances at club or international level against South American teams which isn't much of a surprise to me because that is the football he is suited to as I suspect you know. So far he has struggled in European football or in international football against European sides. So to be labelling him one of the best attacking players in the world is more than a little premature no matter how much natural ability he may have. It is also a little bit silly. The same can be said of his performances in the WC which saw him come second in the Young Player award. In the young player? Why was he only recognised in this category if he is one of the best attacking players in the world? to dismiss Gio as being one of the best attacking players at International level as "laughable" just isn't right given what he's achieved at that level. Actually it is, he hasn't achieved anything to merit that label. If he was some unknown from the Mexican league don't be going crazy over his performance and linking him with the worlds biggest clubs? But nobody is linking him with these clubs, these clubs aren't knocking on Spurs door to sign him are they and despite being one of the best attacking players in the world Spurs don't seem interested in using him. Something doesn't quite add up there does it. Out of interest, how many times has he been in the running for FIFA's Ballon d'Or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Joey55, I like you as you're mostly a reasonable person, even though you're a Spurs fan. Mostly you put up good arguments, but now, on Dos Santos, you're bordering on the Glaston domains. Dos Santos isn't as good as Young is. There's a reason he finds it hard to get in the Spurs line up whilst Young plays regurarly for United. I agree with you on Gomes, though, even though I think you're exaggerating when you say he's among the best when he's in form. But on the whole I agree. And I also rate consistency more than up and down, especially when it comes to keepers. Friedel is also the kind of keeper that most of the time is in the right position so he don't have to make super saves. That's what makes him a solid 8/10 almost every game, though many football fans don't appreciate that as he almost never makes those super saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Why is it laughable Trent? Have you watched his international performance over the last few years? I have, and I agree it's laughable. Very good, yes. Much better than when he plays for Spurs, yes. One of the best attacking players in the world? Absolutely not. So take his performances against Chile or Brazil. Which attacking players at International level have you seen perform to higher level in the last year or so? You say it's laughable but have any of the English players or Italian players etc played at that standard? Who and when? I'm not saying he's been the best, been he's been amonsgt the best. I think the truth is much more likely that neither yourself or Trent have watched him much for Mexico. He's the star player for a country ranked 11th in the world, was named Player of the Tournament at the CONCACAF Cup and was 2nd in the Young Player to the Tournament at the last WC. Football does exist outside of Europe. He might not have played well in this country, but when playing for Mexico he's been top class and one of the stand out attacking players at International tournaments. I can't see why as a non Spurs or Mexico fan you'd have been watching him. Milan Baros won the golden boot at Euro 2004. He was still a bit shit in the Premier though. Dos SanToss could be the best player in the world for Mexico, but that doesn't make it work at Totteringham. **** me, if we had a player that was brilliant for his country but shit for us we wouldn't be defending him. We would be asking why he wasn't doing the shit in the shirt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 22, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 22, 2012 Why is it laughable Trent? Have you watched his international performance over the last few years? I have, and I agree it's laughable. Very good, yes. Much better than when he plays for Spurs, yes. One of the best attacking players in the world? Absolutely not. So take his performances against Chile or Brazil. Which attacking players at International level have you seen perform to higher level in the last year or so? You say it's laughable but have any of the English players or Italian players etc played at that standard? Who and when? I'm not saying he's been the best, been he's been amonsgt the best. I think the truth is much more likely that neither yourself or Trent have watched him much for Mexico. He's the star player for a country ranked 11th in the world, was named Player of the Tournament at the CONCACAF Cup and was 2nd in the Young Player to the Tournament at the last WC. Football does exist outside of Europe. He might not have played well in this country, but when playing for Mexico he's been top class and one of the stand out attacking players at International tournaments. I can't see why as a non Spurs or Mexico fan you'd have been watching him. How do you know how much I've watched him? Why patronise me and suggest I don't know about football outside of Europe? I don't agree with your (frankly wrong) opinion, so the conclusion you draw is that I don't watch any non european football? I never said he hasn't been "top class" for Mexico. But YOU said he's one of the best attacking players in the world at international level. And that is simply not true. If you think I patronised you it was becasue you agreed with Trent that it was laughable. It's harldy laughable given how well he's played at International level. When he was named player of the tournament at the Gold Cup, that was him performing at the level being discussed. The same can be said of his performances in the WC which saw him come second in the Young Player award. Sorry if I patronised you, but to dismiss Gio as being one of the best attacking players at International level as "laughable" just isn't right given what he's achieved at that level. Have you seen much of him for Mexico? If so, what was it about his performances against Brazil, Bosnia and Chile that you don't think make him amongst the best attackers? If he was some unknown from the Mexican league don't be going crazy over his performance and linking him with the worlds biggest clubs? They were cracking performances. very impressive. I only saw the highlights of the CHile game but that certainly made him look good. Vs Brazil he caused them all sorts of problems. Think he got the assist for the penalty (if that's what you want to call it) too? Brazil were pretty unlucky in that game though. Not to take anything away from Dos Santos but they could quite easily have put Mexico to the sword. But anyway, alongside him running the game vs USA in the gold cup (my favourite performance of his) he's put in some very good performances. The USA game was the one where he scored that ridiculous goal as well. You seem to have taken me saying he isn't one of the best players in the world as not rating him. I do. But I don't think you seem to realise what "One of the best attacking players in the world" means. To me that is amongst the top say, 5 or 6, players internationally in the world. And for me, he's short of that. You're begining to sound a lot like Glaston. Don't be blinded by the fact he plays for Spurs. Internationally, he's performed very well. He's not been one of the best attacking players in the world. And regardless of if he is or isn't, there's clearly something not right domestically, or the highlight of his (admittedly still relatively young) career wouldn't be a semi successful loan spell at an average SPanish club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey55 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Why is it laughable Trent? Have you watched his international performance over the last few years? I have, and I agree it's laughable. Very good, yes. Much better than when he plays for Spurs, yes. One of the best attacking players in the world? Absolutely not. So take his performances against Chile or Brazil. Which attacking players at International level have you seen perform to higher level in the last year or so? You say it's laughable but have any of the English players or Italian players etc played at that standard? Who and when? I'm not saying he's been the best, been he's been amonsgt the best. I think the truth is much more likely that neither yourself or Trent have watched him much for Mexico. He's the star player for a country ranked 11th in the world, was named Player of the Tournament at the CONCACAF Cup and was 2nd in the Young Player to the Tournament at the last WC. Football does exist outside of Europe. He might not have played well in this country, but when playing for Mexico he's been top class and one of the stand out attacking players at International tournaments. I can't see why as a non Spurs or Mexico fan you'd have been watching him. How do you know how much I've watched him? Why patronise me and suggest I don't know about football outside of Europe? I don't agree with your (frankly wrong) opinion, so the conclusion you draw is that I don't watch any non european football? I never said he hasn't been "top class" for Mexico. But YOU said he's one of the best attacking players in the world at international level. And that is simply not true. If you think I patronised you it was becasue you agreed with Trent that it was laughable. It's harldy laughable given how well he's played at International level. When he was named player of the tournament at the Gold Cup, that was him performing at the level being discussed. The same can be said of his performances in the WC which saw him come second in the Young Player award. Sorry if I patronised you, but to dismiss Gio as being one of the best attacking players at International level as "laughable" just isn't right given what he's achieved at that level. Have you seen much of him for Mexico? If so, what was it about his performances against Brazil, Bosnia and Chile that you don't think make him amongst the best attackers? If he was some unknown from the Mexican league don't be going crazy over his performance and linking him with the worlds biggest clubs? They were cracking performances. very impressive. I only saw the highlights of the CHile game but that certainly made him look good. Vs Brazil he caused them all sorts of problems. Think he got the assist for the penalty (if that's what you want to call it) too? Brazil were pretty unlucky in that game though. Not to take anything away from Dos Santos but they could quite easily have put Mexico to the sword. But anyway, alongside him running the game vs USA in the gold cup (my favourite performance of his) he's put in some very good performances. The USA game was the one where he scored that ridiculous goal as well. You seem to have taken me saying he isn't one of the best players in the world as not rating him. I do. But I don't think you seem to realise what "One of the best attacking players in the world" means. To me that is amongst the top say, 5 or 6, players internationally in the world. And for me, he's short of that. You're begining to sound a lot like Glaston. Don't be blinded by the fact he plays for Spurs. Internationally, he's performed very well. He's not been one of the best attacking players in the world. And regardless of if he is or isn't, there's clearly something not right domestically, or the highlight of his (admittedly still relatively young) career wouldn't be a semi successful loan spell at an average SPanish club I'm not blinded by the fact he plays for Spurs though. I think the problem is that you all know I'm a Spurs fan and thus you straightaway jump to this conclusion. Yet I've proved time and time again on this site I don't post like that. If you read back through the past few posts I think you'll see I'm probably right about this as the Villa fans have definitely responded as if I said Gio was a better player than Young, whilst in reallity all I did was point out that at International level he's performed at a much better than Young and in my opinion been one of the best in the world. I don';t think I'm being unreasonable or biased here, but I genuinely think I've tried discuess Gio's interntaionl perfomances and most of the Villa fan responses haven't done so and were blinded by the fact I'm a Spurs fan and answered a bit out of context becasue of it. And this wasn't the first time. In fact it happens pretty often. Last time I posted here regularly was during the Redknapp court case and the same thing happend then. Alot of the same posters were involved also. Even if you definition on that means best 5 or 6 (perosnally I'd say that per position, not attacking players in general), it still isn't a "laughable" comment, as even if you don't put him in that group, he can't be far away. I haven't discussed his performances at club level at all. The chances are with one year left on his contract he'll be sold anyway. On this very site I recommended him for Villa, as I suspect he'll be sold. I could understand you saying I was showing SPurs based bias if you hadn't seen him play. If an English player had performed at those levels against one of the best teams in the world everyone would be going crazy. You saw the Chile highlights and even from that you'd be able to tell he put in a performance that had it been replicated by a player from a top European country again everyone would be getting very carried away. His better performance against Brazil was the one last year, even though Mexico lost, not the recent one. He was also quality in their defeat to Argentina. When I made the comment about football existing outside of Europe I didn't mean to patronise you with it and it would seem it would have been better aimed at Trent. He went on to prove my point by simply dismissing his performances, saying the Gold Cup isn't a good enough standard, yet I doubt he'd be of the same opinion if a Villa player played well against a European minow in WC or EC qualifying game. He then said it's hardly CL, as if he was totally missing the point I'm making about Gio. Gio has performed against European teams (MOTM performance against France in the WC), but conversley which European attacking players have done so well against South American oppostion on their continent? European teams have famously struggled outside of Europe so it seems totally unfair to judge a player from Central America against European opposition without considering how the Europeans would fair if their roles were reversed. But I'm not saying he's been good at Spurs. I'm literally talking about international level. Trent doesn't seem to think games at International Level count when discussing how good he's been at Internationla level! I haven't said he's a better player than Young. I've said at International level he's been better and been one of th best attacking players in the world at that level of the last few years. Not many player perform at high level consistently for their countries, yet Gio does and for a highly ranked international team. He hasn't just done it against poor opposition but against the likes of Brazil and at the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 When I see an essay I just cant be bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 By the way Ashey Young has been England's best player in the last 2 years, even if he's been average in the Euros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 22, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 22, 2012 To be honest, I skimmed that joey once it became obvious we're now apparently arguing over the definition of the word "laughable" Dos Santos isn't amongst thebest attacking players in the world. If you think he is, then you are entitled to your opinion and that opinion isn't laughable. Just plain wrong, but not laughable. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2012 I also skim read it and it appeared that there was a fair bit of putting words in my mouth in there so I will reply when I'm not reading it on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It is in my opinion that Ashley Young has been Englands best left sided player for years, and the fact he has only been picked in the last 2 years i dont really believe its his fault. But if you look at the stats in the last 2 years internationally they are very similar, Dos Santos has 8 goals in 25 games (32%)where Ashley Young has 6 in 13(46%). Also Ashley Young has been involved in scoring or an assisting 50% of goals in the last 2 years, and amazing stat that i doubt Dos Sanos matches. Add to that Ashley Young is currently playing regularly for one of the biggest clubs in the world where Dos Santos is rotting his carrier away at Spurs's reserves there isnt even an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 in fairness to Dos Santos i think its the ex-manager fault he is rotting in reserves, a man that prefers Danny Rose ahead of him. People said similar things about Kevin Prince Boateng and he now plays regularly for one of biggest teams in world after not getting a chance from Arry If he went to Swansea as rumoured i think he could thrive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 1. Ronaldo 2. Dos Santos 3. Messi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 joey55, don't try and play the victim card, it is completely pointless. This is a forum for a Premier League football club's fans, and we are currently in a thread regarding another Premier League club's exploits/fortunes/massive word removed of a former manager. It is not an international football merit panel and we are not in a thread regarding the Federación Mexicana de Fútbol Asociación. Dos Santos has not made the grade at Spurs. If he had, he would have made regular performances for the club which would have received positive critical acclaim. If he was one of the top attacking players in the world, as you claim, there would be clubs lining up to take him off your hands. There are not. I'm not going to get into a lengthy argument with you as it would be pointless. I therefore suggest you read the Ethan Moore thread, started by a Villa fan and commented on by Villa fans. This is the perspective you are presenting in this thread with your futile defence of an average Premier League player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 22, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 22, 2012 Average is being kind to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Average is being kind to him. You're absolutely right of course. He actually has to start games to be considered a Premier League player. I should have used the term 'would be'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm not going to get into a lengthy argument with you as it would be pointless. I therefore suggest you read the Ethan Moore thread, started by a Villa fan and commented on by Villa fans. This is the perspective you are presenting in this thread with your futile defence of an average Premier League player. really? one has played about 40 times for Mexico and played for Barcelona and one couldnt get a contract at Cheltenham. its a bit different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2012 Edit - I can't be bothered, I will accept Dos Santos as being one of the best attacking footballers on the planet and will await with interest to see for whom he is playing football next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 There's a reason why this kid has spent 3 years on the bench at Spurs and reluctantly went on loan to Ipswich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Giovanni Dos Santos at international level: Played 59 scored 14 (about 1 in every 4 games) David Healy at international level: Played 93 Scored 35 (about 1 in every 3 games) They do have one thing in common though they've both been on loan at Ipswich in the last couple of years One of the top attacking players in the world though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm not going to get into a lengthy argument with you as it would be pointless. I therefore suggest you read the Ethan Moore thread, started by a Villa fan and commented on by Villa fans. This is the perspective you are presenting in this thread with your futile defence of an average Premier League player. really? one has played about 40 times for Mexico and played for Barcelona and one couldnt get a contract at Cheltenham. its a bit different I'm not comparing Dos Santos to Ethan Moore, I'm comparing j55 to SGC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts