World of Warcraft

[Designer1]

Well, even at this stage, I think it's fair to say you got your moneys worth.

Exactly.

[Risso]

I understand your reasons I think Si, I think overall WoW has had a negative effect on my life, but I just love it so damn much!

Cheers for all your help over the months, it's been great fun matey.

[bickster]

I never get anywhere on the killing blows table which is one reason why I'm changing my spec

Ah, don't be a KB whore! Too many people concentrate on this like they do with damage in instances. If everybody's tbbing and selecting the same targets, then it must make it harder to win battles. What's the point in me blowing a 600 mana, 1200 damage crit on someone with 1% health, when the same shock will wipw out a third of some players' health, making it easier for them to die overall?

Its not the only reason, the other reason is my current spec is shite, having done my research it appears I've wasted 5 points in improved Hunters mark as the bounses arent that good compared to others in other trees, theres a few other area of wastage too and I've never tried survival and having read up on it I really should do

[Designer1]

I understand your reasons I think Si, I think overall WoW has had a negative effect on my life, but I just love it so damn much!

Nothing negative can come from playing such a wonderful game. Its just time to do other things for a while until the next mmorpg comes along, and it will...

[bickster]

I understand your reasons I think Si, I think overall WoW has had a negative effect on my life, but I just love it so damn much!

Nothing negative can come from playing such a wonderful game. Its just time to do other things for a while until the next mmorpg comes along, and it will...

And next time there will probably be more of us being noobs at the same time tooo, which will be loads of extra fun

[ED]

I didn't do a single strat, scholo or BRS until I hit 60, and as for BG, I don't really get it. All I do is kill people, at the Horde camp because the allies have always progressed that far... Its definitely nothing I can spend all night on, the fun in pvp is killing them in the open world, BG feels somewhat contrived. No offence Si but if its the only reason you're staying on, you might as well ditch the monthly fee and play Half Life. A 60 not doing instances is like a bird not nagging...

Shit I wish I hadn't said this now. Is the account gone forever? Did you do a [delete]? Did you send us all your cash before you quit? How much of this is down to Stratgate?

Anyway cheers for all your help, I wouldn't be playing if it wasn't for you, no offence Nays but you weren't around much in my early days - Sion was.

[TRL]

I'm afraid it is true Tarj. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Methinks you are kidding yourself. You do actually get to know the strengths and weaknesses of your character when you play PvP. If you do believe people with high ranks, have gained little experience within PvP battling...

well then i would call you naiv.

Ofc. there are exeptions, but if you fight high ranked players, in duels or whatever, you will see they know what they are doing.

[TRL]

You didnt even get your mace Si

[Risso]

Anyway cheers for all your help, I wouldn't be playing if it wasn't for you, no offence Nays but you weren't around much in my early days - Sion was.

Ditto. And now we're at a level we can all do stuff equally, he's gone and disappeared!

Anyway I've been reading Thottbot, and I've more chance of Elements dropping from UBRS, so I want to do some of those tonight please chaps!!

[ED]

Anyway cheers for all your help, I wouldn't be playing if it wasn't for you, no offence Nays but you weren't around much in my early days - Sion was.

Ditto. And now we're at a level we can all do stuff equally, he's gone and disappeared!

Anyway I've been reading Thottbot, and I've more chance of Elements dropping from UBRS, so I want to do some of those tonight please chaps!!

*rubs hands*

You're preaching to the choir mate - I am to URBS (intentional spelling error) what Nays is to strat. Always willing to do a run, I know it so well that sometimes the raid leaders ask me things :shock:

I'd prefer to start with L and do U a bit later though if you're up for it

[The_Rev]

Hmm. Is Sion no more? Kaput? DELETE?

I cant read page 147 of this thread (im at a Cybercafe just outside Leeds station at the moment waiting for a train home, and the page is censored because someone has used a naughty word!) which seems to have a bombshell on it.

looks like ill have to wait until i get back to Nuneaton in a few hours...

In other news:

[Risso]

Yep, he's deleted Siongest and erased WoW from his PC.

A sad day.

[Sie]

I'm afraid it is true Tarj. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Methinks you are kidding yourself. You do actually get to know the strengths and weaknesses of your character when you play PvP. If you do believe people with high ranks, have gained little experience within PvP battling...

well then i would call you naiv.

Ofc. there are exeptions, but if you fight high ranked players, in duels or whatever, you will see they know what they are doing.

You could call me anything you like Tarj. Haven't you even read the concerns about the current system?

It is universally acknowledged it doesn't reward skill, this isn't just my own opinion. Have you even read the countless documention from Rank 14 players who openly admit that they obtained the rank not by skill, but the fact they spent 14 hours a day in there. They state that the final hurdle wasn't even about winning anymore, it was about arranging for your teammates to let YOU capture the flag, YOU capture all the bases, YOU capturing all the graveyards. They basically have to rely on other people giving up their chance for honour so you can take it.

Ranks are gained from mass honour farming which does not require skill - this is a fact. Look at Zdex on our server. He was a High Worlord for a week and it is commonly said he's not a great PvPer. Now, I'm not saying there is no correlation between rank and skill but I am saying the relationship between the two is a lot more tenuous than you currently think.

Another good example would be the fact I've beaten the reknowned Ally Rogue Toxica who is a Rank 14 player in a BG. Was this due to me dominating him in a fight? No, it was the fact I had 3 other people with me and we caved his skull in. Skill? I think not. Did I get a win and honour for it? Yes.

Now as for getting to know your strengths and weakness. I can guarantee you 100%, and even Nayson will back me up on this, you get to know a SHITLOAD more about both your class and the others by dueling then discussing. Not spamming your abilities on anyone who comes near you in a 40 AV raid then labelling it "skill".

Learning your class has nothing to do with rank or BGs - you simply have to play the game and research the community and classes outside the game in forums. Sure, in a BG you will pick things up as you go but you'll learn even more reading a forum then putting it into practice in dueling. Equally, you learn things outside the BGs.

I'm not trying to knock your achievements Tarj if that is what you think and have no doubts about you ability as a PvP player. What I am simply saying is that a High PvP Rank means this - "I've been in the BGs longer than you" and nothing more.

Rant over. Shutting down...

[Sie]

I'm up for a UBRS run tonight.

[Risso]

Duelling is probably the hardest bit of the game, and I'm a bit poo at it usually, but I don't think it's all THAT important. I like to think I'm a decent all round player who knows his class quite well. I probably spend as much time reading forums (for all classes, not just shammy) as I do playing the game. I've researched my spec in minute detail, and have used the three main Shammy specs until I've settled on my current build, and I can' see me changing it again now.

Being good at duels probably means you're a very good games player, and are probably ace at fighting games on Playstations etc. but it doesn't necessarily make you a good WoW player though, which to me is more than just being able to bash buttons quickly. I try to play to my strengths in instances, help others on quests, and do what I can in BG's too. I'll never be a great dueller, but I think I'll be a good all round WoW player, if that makes sense.

[Sie]

Presenting true theorycraft (Dan, give this a look)

This is what it means to really know your class and how to defeat others.

BTW, Ming is a bit of a WoW celebrity in that he is the co creator of the 21/8/22 Rogue build.

Dueling is about strategy, knowing your oponent, thinking outside the box in order to counter situations where other players would panic. It is ALL to do with theorycraft and not your ability to "play Playstation". To think dueling in WoW is anything like Tekken on a PS2 is to admit you've not a gamer nor understand it. This is the hidden depth I was on about that most WoW players never discover in WoW - like I said, when you think you know your class, the rugged is pulled from underneath your feet.

I should point out too that this is only about PvP. Instance strategy is a totally different bag altogether - I'm strictly refering to PvP.

[Designer1]

[Sie]

Yeah, I'd rather be dead than Calista Flockhart too.

[TRL]

Learning your class has nothing to do with rank or BGs

If you wanna learn to become a good PvP player it does. They are combined wether you like it or not. I can repeat my post, but i guess its like talking to a wall.

Ive learned countless stuff, about how to handle my priest in pvp against other classes, on the BG's.

And regarding duelling, if you catch a look outside Orgrimmar, you will see a shitload with people duelling. Most of em with relatively high ranks.

[Sie]

No, you're not talking to a wall, you're talking to someone who has been playing the game longer than you and disagrees; someone who provided valid evidence you've seemingly ignored completely.

Yes, you have learned countless stuff in a BG. You're clearly going to because it is time spent on the game. Thing is, you'd have learned it outside a BG too just fighting alliance in the open world without gaining rank. Sure, you won't get half as much honour but then that is exactly the point I am getting at. Honour (aka Rank) and skill are NOT connected. You can pretend they are all you like, they are not and never will be in the current PvP system. Honour is a measure of time spent hanging around in a BG. End of Story. If you don't agree, go ask the WoW community.

Regarding duelling. Yes, I will see people with high ranks but ask yourself this. Why do you think they are still dueling and not in a BG?

The reason? They got their high rank from mass honour farming in order to gain Epic Items. These people do not raid and so this is their alternative. They stick to duelling to learn their PvP craft. The evidence is there in front of you and hell, even you yourself just pointed it out without seemingly realising.

They gather their class skill from these duels which is why they continue to do them. They then discuss the battle afterwards, trade info on what cooldowns were used, what moves the opponent used. Good ways to counter etc etc. I would like to see you try this in a 40 AV battle. It is why Ming, who is a very skilled high level player, wrote a dueling guide and not a "Here is how to zerg a palladin with 14 other players in AV" guide.

To say they are connected would equally mean that anyone with a low rank should be shite at PvP. We know this not to be the case.

In summary. Player skill and Rank may climb together but they are not related even if this fact does belittle the achievements of some. This is the essense of what I am saying. Agree or disagree. Simple.