peterms Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 When the US abandoned the Gold Standard for the $ in 1971 this signalled the start of the world turning instead to a fractional reserve currency system, which is entirely dependent on debt to grow. It's not about the assets to back up a currency.... it's about a pyramid scheme of debt. Julie, I think this is running together two different things, fiat currency and fractional reserve banking. We have for a very long time had a system which depends on debt for growth. That's caused not by fiat currencies, but by fractional reserve banking. Money is created by banks, without assets to back it up, and is created as debt which can only be redeemed by paying back more than was borrowed, ie overall, more than the money in existence. So more must be created. And so it goes on until debt is periodically wiped out by defaults or debt jubilees, as has been the case for a couple of thousand years. And before 1971, there weren't the assets to back up the currency either. The reason Britain came off the gold standard decades previously, and the US did in 1971, was that when people asked for their currency actually to be converted into gold, it turned out that there wasn't really that much gold in existence. The promise to "pay the bearer on demand" was not deliverable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 In ten years under Labour, private mortgages grew from 50% of GDP to 85%. I don't see the current government suggesting that they wish to reverse this (or actually wanting it reversed). I agree with Peter's points about both (all) flavours of government being quite happy with this and it being an immanent part of the economic system we have, Well of course the figure itself will take a while to reduce, as people's mortgages aren't going to get any smaller for a while, assuming that the average mortgage probably has I'd guess, 15 years to run. But I disagree anyway. The figure during the Labour years got to a ridiculous size thanks to the silly amounts being lent by banks. I remember being offered a 125% first time buyer mortgage on 5 times our joint salary by Northern Rock, as well as a credit card with a £5K limit "for the things you'll need to furnish it". Absolute madness. Didn't the government say recently that the Bank of England was going to be given powers to prevent such foolishness, ie mortgages based on silly multiples of income, and very high LTV ratios. Preaching the party line again eh Risso? I see your stance is based solely on your long held views of "its Labour's fault" when the reality as shown is that the world and those who run it are dictating the rules. Funny how you conveniently chose again to ignore any influence from those in the Tory party and it's again solely a problem that has manifested itself because of the tenure of a Labour Government. Drat, I hate reading your posts on here, and therefore refuse to debate with you due to the unnecessarily personal nature of your posts. I don't agree with the likes of peterms and snowy much, but at least they don't starte every single post with digs about "party lines" or "typical Tories" etc. Now, you can take that as you like, but it's impossible to discuss anything in a sensible manner with you, so I just won't bother in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 And before 1971, there weren't the assets to back up the currency either. The reason Britain came off the gold standard decades previously, and the US did in 1971, was that when people asked for their currency actually to be converted into gold, it turned out that there wasn't really that much gold in existence. The promise to "pay the bearer on demand" was not deliverable. That's true but it doesn't make it sustainable in the long term, because many commentators are now saying there's going to be a down valuing of the US $ particularly if it stops being the reserve currency of the world. "We have for a very long time had a system which depends on debt for growth" Also true and it's catching up with us and coming back to bite us on the bum. We now also have a multi trillion $ shadow banking system that is even more reliant on debt in the financial derivatives, off balance sheet markets, which has reckless gamblers running wild & free. Like one poster said - Bring back Prudence! Snowy I disagree - RT.com might be Russian biased and of course that has to be taken into account, but sometimes they have some extremely informative interviews and it's good to get the alternative view rather than the drivel dished out by Sky & the BBC. Only y'day I was reading that the BBC have used hundreds of thousands of tax payers £s to keep secret an internal investigation into whether their coverage of the Israel/Palestine conflict over the years has been biased. WHY?!!! Personally I like to see things from a different perspective. In the US people who watch Fox news are apparently less informed of what's going on in the world, than people who watch NO news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 There is no reason why gold should be a standard of currency any more than a dollar bill should be. The shiny piece of metal costs way more than its actually usefulness to society, in the same as the fancy piece of paper costs more than the usefulness of a piece of paper. Returning to a gold standard is no different to picking any other form of currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I've got millions of paper clips in my office ...let's hope someone adopts that as the new standard for currency Mind you I've just appointed this Scottish bloke Gordon to run the stationery room it will be my luck that he offloads them all now whilst they are next to worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 There is no reason why gold should be a standard of currency any more than a dollar bill should be. The shiny piece of metal costs way more than its actually usefulness to society, in the same as the fancy piece of paper costs more than the usefulness of a piece of paper. Returning to a gold standard is no different to picking any other form of currency. It might not be Gold - the Russians, Chinese, Saddam Hussein, & Gaddafi also Iran were proposing a new international reserve currency to replace the US $ - much to the ire of the Yanks as I've said before. Iran has in fact now started selling Oil for Gold and by passing the dollar altogether. Slightly OT You know archaeologists were often puzzled as to why the ancients seemed quite so obsessed with Gold. Then accidentally science discovered a different form of the stuff - Western laboratories couldn't identify this mystery white powder not on the periodic table - It took the Russians to fathom out exactly what it was - it was a completely new molecular form of Gold - monoatomic Gold. A superconductor with amazing properties that it appears ancient civilisatons could harness. The Egyptians called it Mfcyt which their alchemists appear to been able to manufacture from Gold and the Pharoah's made cake out of this mystery white powder and ate it because it does appear to enhance the human brain as well as be used to bend dimensional space and cause weighlessness of other materials. It appears also from Biblical accounts that Moses knew how to turn Gold into a powder form also. Fascinating reaseach going on involving monoatomic Gold and what science has termed the superconductors or exotic elements. Laurence Gardner & Jim Marr's talks on the subject of future technology from the past are really interesting to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Monoatomic gold? Hadn't heard of that, so Googled it, and it seems the only sites mentioning it, are erm, "less than scientific" shall we say. :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Monoatomic gold? Hadn't heard of that, so Googled it, and it seems the only sites mentioning it, are erm, "less than scientific" shall we say. :? Science is only JUST beginning to discover the properties of superconductors and exoctic elements. Physicists unveil unexpected properties in superconducting material January 20, 2011 Mono atomic elements were only discovered in the 1970s so this is all new science. It's like there existing possibly matter that can travel faster than the speed of light. If these exist it will rewrite the physics text books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Article on this strange white powder discovered by a US cotton farmer David Hudson on his land in 1971 and what it could mean for superconductivity, nano technology and medicinal science going forward "Mfkzt" - A New Dimension in the Value of Gold Stephen Robbins, PhD Let us add another dimension to the perceived value of gold. It is a value applied to an alternative source of energy, higher states of consciousness, space-travel, health and in all likelihood, more. This value emerges from a science apparently once known to the ancients, now being rediscovered. In what follows, let me state that I am, for the most part, merely condensing a much larger discussion of the subject by Lawrence Gardner (Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark). "Mfkzt" (sometimes pronounced "mufkuzt") is the ancient Egyptian name for a transformed state of gold. By a special process of arc heating, gold and other platinum group metals can be turned into a single atom or monatomic substance - a form of powder - that has superconductive properties. The process was rediscovered starting in the late 1970's through the efforts of David Hudson, a large landowner and farmer near Yuma, Arizona. The high sodium content of much Arizona soil makes it crunchy and impenetrable by water. Hudson was attempting to use sulfuric acid to combat this, and in the course of analyzing soil constituents that were not dissolved by the acid, a strange substance began to emerge. Curiously, it was observed, when exposed over time to the hot sun, small chunks of the soil that failed to dissolve would suddenly burst in a blaze of light and disappear. An expert in Arc Emission Spectroscopy was engaged. This process involves placing a sample in a carbon electrode cup and bringing another electrode down above it to create an arc. As the current flows, the elements in the sample literally boil off (ionize), giving off their specific light frequencies. Once the electrode burned itself away (about 15 seconds), the standard process still left a glowing white bead yet comprising 98% percent of the sample, but registering (to the spectroscope) nothing! Using a special, Soviet-designed version which encapsulates the process in an inert gas such as argon, the elements of the soil sample again boiled away - small amounts of iron, silica, aluminum, titanium, etc. For 70 seconds, all readings stopped, then came palladium, ruthenium, rhodium, iridium and at 220 seconds, osmium - the metals of the platinum group (PGM). The tests continued from 1983-1989, at Hudson's expense, with highly qualified experts. The substance was heated at 1.2 degrees C per minute, and cooled at 2 degrees C per minute. In the heating process, at the moment the sample changed from its original dullness to the whiteness of its bright bead and subsequent powder, its weight fell to 56% of the original. The other 44% was inexplicably missing. Further heating at 1160 degrees in a vacuum resulted in a wonderfully clear glass, and a return to 100% of the original weight. Repeatedly heated and cooled under inert gases, the sample rose to 300-400% of its original weight, but when heated again, it weighed less than nothing - below zero. At this point, the sample would disappear from sight. A voltmeter with live electrodes touched to ends of the substance (when visible) revealed no conductivity whatever. The substance was a high temperature superconductor. A superconductor does not allow any voltage potential or any magnetic field to exist within itself; it is a perfect insulator. But it is extremely sensitive to magnetic fields of infinitely minute magnitudes and will respond to extremely small magnetic forces. Within such a conductor a single frequency light flows, liquid-like, at the speed of sound. Its null magnetic field repels both North and South magnetic poles, but it can absorb high magnetic energy, producing even more light. The Earth's magnetic field can give sufficient energy for it to levitate. This is what was happening to the apparently missing 44% of weight. And when the sample registered as less than zero, the material was in a full state of levitation. The field produced by the flowing light, which excludes all other fields, is termed a Meissner field. When two superconductors are linked by their Meissner fields, over any distance, the two can act, instantaneously, in a process termed "quantum coherence." For two particles in a coherent state and separated by a great distance, a change in one particle, for example its spin state, is instantaneously communicated to the other. This is despite the fact that given the classical limitation of the maximum velocity of communication at the speed of light, such instantaneous communication should not have happened. As more light can continually "pour" into the same space, any amount of energy can be stored in a superconductor, and transmitted over any distance via a quantum wave which knows no boundaries of space or time. You can start a superconductor flowing by applying a magnetic field. It responds by flowing light inside, building a larger Meissner field. Drop the magnet and return in 100 years, it is still flowing. Indeed, in the course of his efforts, Hudson had made contact with scientists, at the time from GE, who had realized that a monatomic superconductor could enable the perfect, environmentally friendly fuel-cell. Hudson planned to start a manufacturing plant to produce the critical monatomic component. According to a theory of physicist Hal Puthoff, at the point in heating when the powder (now termed by physics "exotic matter") disappears, it resides outside of space-time, in another dimension. Proof of this was ascertained by attempting to disturb and scoop the substance off the pan while invisible, so that it would be in a new position when again seen. This did not happen - the substance always returned to the same position. Discussions of exotic matter and "stealth atoms" began to appear in the scientific journals in the early 1990's. Physics refers to the monatomic high-spin state as "asymmetrical deformed high-spin nuclei." A correlated subject is the manipulation of space-time. Alcubierre (Journal of Classical and Quantum Gravity, 1994), stated flatly: "It is now known that it is possible to modify space-time in a way that allows a spaceship to travel at an arbitrarily large speed by a purely local expansion of the space-time behind the spaceship and a purely local contraction in front of it - a motion faster than the speed of light reminiscent of the warp drive of science fiction." Szpir (American Scientist, 1994) reconciled this with relativity's theoretic limit of velocity to the speed of light, arguing that when in "warp" mode, the craft would not really be traveling at all, for the true rate of acceleration would be zero. Making Szpir's relocation of chunks of space-time possible - "exotic matter," i.e., matter which has a gravitational attraction of less than zero. Let us turn, for a moment, to the past. In 1904, the great British archeologist, Sir W. M. Flinders Petrie, discovered a massive cave in an area of the Sinai he believed to be the biblical Mount Horeb. Within was an ancient temple dedicated to the Goddess Hathor. The associated artifacts and inscriptions, to include a metallurgist's crucible, indicated it had been in continuous operation for 1500 years. Hidden beneath the flagstones was a considerable quantity - many tons - of a pure white powder. Within also were innumerable references to "bread" and the traditional hieroglyph for "light." In one of a whole class of similar depictions, Hathor offers the emblem of life to the pharaoh, while behind her, her treasurer holds a conical loaf of "white bread." The conical loaves were the "shem-an-na, " the bread of life, associated with increasing longevity and with travel to the realms of the afterlife. This was the province of the kings and nobles. It is now known that monatomic platinum group metals will resonate with deformed (or cancerous) body cells, "relaxing" and correcting the DNA, while iridium is tuned to the ends of the DNA strands, turning the DNA itself into a superconductor. "Mfkzt" was listed in the Egyptian lists of precious substances, while the locality of the king in the afterlife is called the "Field of Mfkzt." It seems there was a precise reason that Moses ground the golden calf to a powder, put it in water and fed it to the unruly Israelites (Exodus 32:20) - it was to raise their consciousness. The Israelites themselves, it has been argued, were the Hyksos. Expelled from their kingdom in lower Egypt, they took their technology with them. The Ark, with its thick outer and inner plates of gold, both sandwiching a layer of insulating "shittim" wood, formed a massive capacitor. The solid gold lid alone is estimated to have weighed 2700 pounds, excluding the two golden cherubim perched on top, serving as electrodes when connected to the inner and outer plate respectively. Just sitting, it would have accumulated a massive, deadly charge. Within was placed a golden container of mfkzt/shem-an-na or manna (see Hebrews 9:4). The bible makes it clear that the Ark was capable of levitation and had destructive powers. Recent works have suggested that after the First Crusade, the Templars, apparently the custodians of a secret knowledge passed on for generations, recovered the Ark from its hiding place in the cavern-vaults beneath the Jerusalem temple, and hid it again before the demise of their order in 1307. Near a door of the cathedral of Chartres, a Latin inscription reads: "Here is yielded up the Ark of the Covenant." On the floor of the cathedral, there is the famous figure/design of the labyrinth. A 4'6" diameter copper plate once was fastened over this (the bolt studs are still visible). Copper is a type 2 superconductor (allowing some penetration of external fields). Directly above, from the roof, there once hung a massive lodestone. Laced with iridium, as is common for these extra-terrestrial stones, it would have been a powerful type 1 superconductor (no external field penetration). Needed to start a powerful tubular flux between the two was a source of voltage, and the Ark, with its mfkzt within and itself a superconductor with its own Meissner field, was such par excellence. Gardner speculates that the Ark itself rests precisely yet in Chartres - in another dimension. If so, it is surrounded by the mysterious stained glass of the cathedrals with its wonderful, etheric inner light - a glass that perhaps only now can be duplicated. By 1995, at the demand of the patent office, Hudson was able to demonstrate the reverse process. From a sample that registered as iron, silica and aluminum, there emerged an ingot that analyzed as pure gold. The alchemists, to include Newton himself as modern scholars have uncovered, were apparently pursuing an ancient possibility that was once quite well understood. But Hudson's story ends predictably. He refused the advances of an "investor" who was traced to the DOD. He was told that his projects would never be allowed to complete, and eventually was shut down via "natural" (OSHA, EPA, fines) red tape. As Gardner, notes, "...it is now destined to become a science of big league players at government and corporate levels. Consequently, the stakes are high and the precious metals markets have moved on to a new platform of strategic operation. As oil begins its downward slide to become the fuel of yesteryear, the future masters of the globe will be those who control the gold and PGM supplies." Gold is the new oil. Rather than being produced from the soil of earth through Hudson's process, the decision has been made: the source of the monatomic powder and its vast profits will be controlled by those who hold the existent stores and control the mining operations. A case can be made that it was to this end - control in the "proper hands" - that, beginning in 1999, gold was devalued and systematically sold off by the Bank of England and other central banks. There is much more to this subject. Please do your own diligence. Stephen Robbins, PhD. 20 January 2006 Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Monoatomic gold? I read up on this stuff last year in one of those late night moments of sleep depravity that I have ... it's supposed to have health benefits if i recall ..to the point that some companies are putting it into supplements and charging fortunes for it (no proper evidence of it having health benefits though if I recall , juts lots of new age stuff) search enough on Monoatomic gold though and at some point you will end up at a web site run /linked to David Icke funny that almost everything links back to him in the end .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Non of that makes sense, it reads like pseudo science bullshit. But this bit particularly perplexed me. A superconductor does not allow any voltage potential or any magnetic field to exist within itself; it is a perfect insulator. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Monoatomic gold? I read up on this stuff last year in one of those late night moments of sleep depravity that I have ... it's supposed to have health benefits if i recall ..to the point that some companies are putting it into supplements and charging fortunes for it (no proper evidence of it having health benefits though if I recall , juts lots of new age stuff) search enough on Monoatomic gold though and at some point you will end up at a web site run /linked to David Icke funny that almost everything links back to him in the end .... I accidentally came across the subject a while back & have been trying to follow developments ever since. I agree that all the new agists have jumped on the bandwagon and I'm not even bothered about opinions on whether the Ark of the Covenant was actually specifically designed as an electrical conductor per se. That wasn't why I posted the article. However it IS interesting finding out that science is now re-discovering what ancient civilisations seem to have known about regarding these elements. Perhaps lost knowledge which went down with the fire at the Great Library of Alexandria Out of interest I googled Stephen Robbins PhD to see who he is and this appears to be the person who wrote that article. Stephen Robbins, Ph.D. Room 2AA22, Health Research Innovation Centre 3330 Hospital Drive NW, Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 4N1 Dr. Robbins obtained his Ph.D. from the University of British Columbia in 1991. It was during his postdoctoral training at the University of California, San Francisco, under the mentorship of Nobel Laureate Dr. J. Michael Bishop, that he developed his passion for cancer biology. In 1996, Dr. Robbins joined the University of Calgary in the Faculty of Medicine as an Assistant Professor in the Departments of Oncology and Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. He is currently an Associate Professor, an Alberta Heritage Foundation for Medical Research Scientist, and the recipient of a prestigious Canada Research Chair in the area of Cancer Biology. He is devoted to graduate education, and in 1999 and 2002 was awarded the Watanabe Distinguished Award for Overall Excellence in the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Calgary. Dr. Robbins' research activities include deciphering how extracellular signals are recognized by cells to control cellular proliferation and differentiation. Dr Robbins maintains a very active research group that is funded by a number of agencies including the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the Canada Foundation for Innovation, the Cancer Research Society, the Kids Cancer Care Foundation of Alberta and the Alberta Cancer Board. Recently, Dr. Robbins has been instrumental in establishing the Southern Alberta Microarray Facility, a state-of-the-art facility for examining how the genetic make-up of cells changes during diseases such as cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Non of that makes sense, it reads like pseudo science bullshit. But this bit particularly perplexed me. A superconductor does not allow any voltage potential or any magnetic field to exist within itself; it is a perfect insulator. What? From Wiki Superconductivity is a phenomenon of exactly zero electrical resistance and expulsion of magnetic fields occurring in certain materials when cooled below a characteristic critical temperature. It was discovered by Heike Kamerlingh Onnes on April 8, 1911 in Leiden. Like ferromagnetism and atomic spectral lines, superconductivity is a quantum mechanical phenomenon. It is characterized by the Meissner effect, the complete ejection of magnetic field lines from the interior of the superconductor as it transitions into the superconducting state. The occurrence of the Meissner effect indicates that superconductivity cannot be understood simply as the idealization of perfect conductivity in classical physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I still don't understand, sorry Julie lol. Is this material an insulator or a conductor, it seems like a contradiction in terms, but I'm not a scientist. Sorry we're taking this thread off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sorry we're taking this thread off topic. I agree. The Science of nano technology is moving so fast and alot is being done behind closed doors. What is most interesting is to find that these exoctic elements supposedly make other materials weightless. If that is true it will perhaps explain how ancient civilisations built theit enormous artifacts using huge blocks of stone that not even modern cranes can transport. David Icke & many others claim it was alien technology. However perhaps it is just that science is only now just re-discovering what ancient people knew. The discovery of Gobekli Tepe - the worlds oldest temple - has kinda thrown mainstream archeology into reboot mode in anycase. I think the main point is...if there is any truth in any of these weird properties medicinal, physical, dimensional & otherwise Gold & other precious metals will become alot more valuable going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 17, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2012 If something has zero electrical resistance (perfect conductor) then there cannot be any potential difference (measured in volts, PD is sometimes called voltage) across it - all points within it would have the same electrical charge. It would I assume, from reading Julie's posts also be a magnetic isolator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If something has zero electrical resistance (perfect conductor) then there cannot be any potential difference (measured in volts, PD is sometimes called voltage) across it - all points within it would have the same electrical charge. It would I assume, from reading Julie's posts also be a magnetic isolator. bugger beat me to it so I'll just say this ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17, 2012 So what we're saying is, we should base our currency on magic gold? Time to get chasing rainbows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 So what we're saying is, we should base our currency on magic gold? Time to get chasing rainbows... Oh for goodness sake! .. Up until the 20th Century ALL currencies were based on GOLD.. THE GOLD standard FACT! as in normal GOLD the stuff we dig out of the ground. But mono-atomic Gold does explain why ancient civilisations were so obsessed with the stuff. The Egyptians, The South Americans etc etc etc Are you now saying that mono-atomic Gold doesn't exist? David Hudson paid something like $8M to science labs all over the globe to investigate it when he came across it on his land in the 1970s I find people on VT so closed minded. You would have said EXACTLY the same if someone had said there could infact exist particles that move faster than the speed of light. Listen to video by the guy himself on what happened when he found this material on his land and took it to IIRC the Smithsonian for analysis David Hudson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17, 2012 I know what bloody the gold standard was you fool. I made a flippant comment hoping to nip this rubbish in the bud and get back to what the bloody topic is actually about. I don't give a flying **** about 'monoatomic gold' and know nothing about whether it exists or not, because I don't care to know. Now... is the economy still **** gentlemen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts